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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts 
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I'm currently working on my own version of "Random Thoughts" by Devin Knight, and I have encountered a problem. I want my spectator to "freely" select a newspaper from one of a big pile; The Times, The Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Sun, The Guardian etc - but I'm not sure how I want to do it.
I want it to at least look like a free mental choice, because the routine already has no less than 5 "force" methods in it. Basically they always end up on Page 34 of a newspaper... but I tried to put the same page 34 into each newspaper only to realise they all have the date and title of the paper stamped across each individual page. The method cannot be one that looks "random", for example a force bag, because the whole premise of the show is one of psychological influence, not predicting random events. Any suggestions? I've heard something about a DVD called Hemesphers, but I'm not sure if that's will work. Tom xx
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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Thaumaturge Loyal user 289 Posts
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Pateo or equivoque.
that's all you'll need 
Thaumaturge
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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You can't equivoque with 12 newspapers and make it look convincing. Equivoque simply does not fool people, theres a reason you don't see it performed on tv.
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-03-20 07:50, Eshla wrote: I saw a lecture in this past year (wish I could remember who it was) that was able to use equivoque to force a playing card out of a full deck. I would have agreed with you if I haven't seen this with my own eyes and been completely fooled. |
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Thaumaturge Loyal user 289 Posts
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That is simply not true Eshla.
I strongly recommend reading Docc Hilfords E'VOQUE. It is an amazing work on this subject. I'd also look into something used by Richard Osterlind, I think as part of his seafire seaquence. The reason you don't see performances using equivoque is simply because the performer is rehearsed in every outcome, so the whole selection looks natural, and is pretty much undetectable.
Thaumaturge
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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I beleive you are thinking of Joshua Quinns Deckquivoque.
It is a good peice, but not strong on its own. I personally combine it with crossroads to ensure that equivoque is not seen as a sollution. Is there ANY alternative to using Equivoque? I'd really like to try and avoid it, since I already use it once in my show to force a suit.
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12967 Posts
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Just use random thoughts. There's a reason the pros release stuff.
You ask for a solution it is given you berate eht person that offers it. Then you say that you don't want to use EQ cause it's not on TV. Then you say you don't want to use it cause you already have it in your show. What gives? J |
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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John, Random Thoughts allows you to only use THREE sheets of newspaper. I want to use around 10 or 12 full newspapers, I already have a very nice little method of forcing the oage 34.
I doubt EQ will hold up under scrutiny, particularly to anyone who see's the show twice. I do have a short part of it in my show, inspired by Quinn, but it is only to force a suit and the number of the card is a completely free choice, which means it looks very unlike EQ. Tom xx
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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Mark Roberts Special user Nottingham, UK 597 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-03-20 09:29, Eshla wrote: Then you have obvioulsy not see DB's Something Wicked This Way Comes show live. EQ is used beautifully within that show and I have yet to see any layperson that spotted it. The others are correct, it is all in the scripting and presentation. (I'm now going to pop down back into my hole again )
Mark |
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David Alexander Special user 623 Posts
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John and others,
As usual Eshla doesn't know what he's talking about. He's handed gold and spits in people's faces for their help. He should be ignored. |
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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Please come out of your hole Mark
I've watched SWTWC a dozen times or more, and I didn't notice any EQ. Where was it? Quote:
John and others, Awww, that's a bit mean 
I try to be nice, but I would like to try and avoid EQ if possible. I was only asking if there was an alternative. Tom xx
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-03-20 09:51, Eshla wrote: don't pull apart another performer's work...its based on berglas' ideas... I don't know why you ask for "help" - as you always seem to have all the answers anyway... get out of thy armchair and perform... test out these things that you claim don't work with real live human beings first and see what happens...
I've asked to be banned
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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I did, four times, using Quinns exact script, it failed every time - whereas all my other tricks worked perfectly. If anyone has a video of EQ being used on Youtube I'd be very suprised if the comments wern't full of exposure.
Is EQ really in SWTWC? I honestly did not spot anything like it that I remember. Edit: No disrespect to Quinn, but as he says himself "It only fools the performer not the audience" (paraprasing badly). I do use his Deckquivoke along with crossroads though, where its a beautiful thing.
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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parmenion Inner circle Switzerland/Zürich 3988 Posts
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Ok, I will help you because I'm in my good day.
If you watch DB carefully you can see he uses a cerebro V ( not yet release to the public) The cerebro V send suggestion/order to 100M without touch the personn. According to the creator, it looks this products never be release because politicians and military want to use it only for themselves ( I don't know why, but they're interested) Otherwise you can say : hello I'm 17year old and I know all about everything, so I know everything of you ¨ please sir, come on stage, what's your name ? As you can see what I say and the reality are two things totally different. So, know I've here 12 newspaper, please choose one randomly. randomly means this one for me, so please take this one but for you randomly means any one. so, after the show, when you'll talk about this routine you remenbered you choose a newspaper betwen 12 with totally free choice. Elle est pas belle la vie ?!
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br> <BR>Artist pickpocket Professional <BR> <BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM! |
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Garrad Elite user 446 Posts
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If the date and paper name are at the top of each page why not just take it out on page 34, no one will notice and no one will be able to back-track. There are certain chemicals you could use to remove that small piece of writing. If you want to be extra cautious you could do it on all pages.
You might say reality is the result of complex negotiations between the observer and the observed. But that is simply a point of view.
Many Thanks Garrad |
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brody Inner circle Omaha 1313 Posts
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Make a big bundle of the 10 or 12 newspapers and rubber band them all together. (Staples, Office Depot, etc. carry really BIG rubber bands.)
All but two of the papers are all the same edition. Pull out those two and show to audience as examples of the papers you have in the stack. Mention the other 10 papers by name, but DON'T pull them out. (Since they're not really there anyhow). Have someone pull one of the papers out of the middle of the stack. |
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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Where could I get such chemicals? Its a good idea, but realistically I would need to have to do it to EVERY bit of paper; and ofcourse the paper is ripped up for each performance :/
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts
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Eshla,
You insist on running when you're not being chased and therefor overcomplicating the routine unnecessarily by perceiving problems where none exist. Unless I am mistaken regarding Devin's effect, there is absolutely no need to have more than a single newspaper, so there is no need to force the selection of a newspaper. There is more than enough "random selection" inherent in the routine by the process of tearing and eliminating pieces as determined by the assisting spectator. If you present the newspaper as being nothing more nor less than what it is -- namely a newspaper -- the "problem" ceases to exist. If you hope to ever understand mentalism well enough to have any business trying to perform it you need to learn to think like a "real person" (i.e., a layman, a member of the audience) instead of like a magician.
Dick Christian
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts
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Or better yet, stop thinking and just do it.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Eshla Inner circle 1239 Posts
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Dear Dick
My routine looks virtually NOTHING like Devin Knights, I just borrow his tear. The tear is a very clever one by the way, and I reccomend it to anyone who needs that sort of thing
Basically there is NO "random" element. For example earlier in the show I have someone write a number between 1 and 10 down, after looking directly at them and telling them they know which number to write, I then discretely find out their number and place the force bit of paper at that position in the pile, so if they have written "8" I place it at the eigth bit of the pile, and this looks like I made them choose the number 8 - as I never even saw their number (or so they think). Tom xx
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
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Posted: Mar 20, 2010 11:02 am 
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