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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
As I'm working through putting together my cups and balls routine, I've run into a bit of a block on several occasions, and I'm wondering if others have experienced the same thing.
As performers, I'm sure most of us have seen a LOT more magic than the typical lay person. I know I've seen dozens and dozens of cups and balls routines, and I continue to look at more every chance I get. I like to see what other people are doing, and it gives me inspiration and food for thought. The issue I'm running into is that many routines are using very similar moves and patter. The one in particular that I've seen FAR too much at this point is taking the ball invisibly from the center cup and placing it in the left or right one, depending on the spectator's choice. I'm by no means a trailblazer here...I'm doing plenty of moves that have been done over and over again throughout the generations. For some reason that particular one irks me because a large portion of performers seem to use it, yet I have no problem doing other things that a lot of people do. Go figure. I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are as far as originality...how do you work around that skewed perspective that we have because we know how tricks are performed, and we've seen them time and time again? The first time I saw a twisted aces routine I was blown away. Now that I know the secret and have done it myself, it's lost a little bit of that special something. I know that a cups and balls routine, performed well, is a treasure...it's a time tested, proven piece that can be quite magical for spectators. Do your routines and those of others impress you just as much, even though you know how they're performed? Or do you put something together while trying to put yourself in the shoes of the spectator, and work to impress THEM? My experience thus far is teaching me that having seen as much magic as I've seen, the goal now is to push the envelope and do something that I haven't personally seen yet...I'm sure it exists out there somewhere, but if it's new to ME, I'll be happy. I may be answering my own question here, because a lot of what we're doing, despite how many times we've seen it, will still be new to the audience, and that's a big part of the goal. I'd be interested to hear how others approach the subject.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Over the years I have played with original moves and strange things... but as you know a couple of week ago I performed on a TV Special and decided to close the show with the cups and balls.
I did basically the Dai Vernon routine without any new things or subtle bits... I felt that it was the easiest for laymen to follow. So often we, as magicians, try to be too clever and nobody watching really follows the effect. Vernon did not produce the balls, like many seem to do... I feel he figured that if you could produce 3 balls, maybe you produced more. So you just bring out and show the 3 balls. The only change I did was the final loads, using the multiplication pass and working out of my jacket pocket. Never did like using the trouser pockets. Then I delayed the reveal of the finals by saying, "I can do this without the cups..." and did the 2 in the hand 1 in the pocket... then said, "I'd now like to make them re-appear under the cups.... but... THERE'S NO ROOM... I then lifted the center cup showing a tomator, then with both hands lifted the two outer cups at the same time revealing a potato and a turnip (Ammar's FAB FRUIT). The impact of that reveal sequence is the best I've found. Needless to say, for laymen, the routine killed.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
Sounds fantastic! I didn't know you'd done a TV special awhile back...is the footage online anywhere? I'd love to see it!
Ammar's fab fruit is excellent. I'm definitely a fan.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
PMed you
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
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elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts |
Mr Biro, this soundsgreat.Ireallylikethe2in the handone in thepocket asan addition the the cups,which plays perfectly for the final load.
Whattv special was it |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
The series is FAMILY FOCUS... a cable show in the South Bay (south of Los Angeles). It should be on in a couple of weeks. Then will be on you tube. I'll post the info. when I know. Thanks. It's "pete" not Mr. Biro
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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TonyPorter Regular user 180 Posts |
Looking forward to that!
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I'm not saying that originality is overrated, but originality for its own sake can be. I'm just finishing up a two week engagement at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, as part of their "Magic! The Science of Wonder" presentation.
I'm doing close-up there. Most of it is performed in a single location, which is right next to the area where the main stage is located. There is a semicircular close-up table, property of Richard Hatch, that works out well for me. I'm doing a few original things, but much of what I do is based on other peoples' work. I close each set with a chop cup routine, which is basically the same as the one Don Alan did. The patter is somewhat different, though, because I'm presenting it in an historical context...sort of. The final loads are a red billiard ball, a cue ball and an eight ball. This works very well with the audiences we have been getting. I had to change the method for the loads, because of the setup. I worked it out, thanks to Bob Sanders, and have managed to do what I did at Renaissance Festivals for a long time, but without the use of a pouch. I don't like to perform seated, and I don't like to work from the pockets. I may have stumbled across an idea that I had forgotten about. I'll see if I can set it up tomorrow and use it. If you are familiar with Fred Kaps' method of producing a jumbo Chinese coin, you will have the key to the work.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
Bill - do you have any performance videos online? I'd love to see some of your work.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
You should try to see Dean Dill on the Johnny Carson show. He does a chop cup routine without a small ball and his load is very deceptive right off the top of the table.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
I found a card trick with a cup where the card winds up in a very magical place...not the same routine but extremely impressive. Carson seemed to think so too.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-27 20:02, Andrewzuber wrote: I don't have the chop cup routine in a video. I studiously avoided people recording my act at live performances. However, these two are from a wedding I performed last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70C65b5EUKg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImR5pXtqo0A
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Hansel Inner circle Puerto Rico 2492 Posts |
I love the S& R gag!
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Thanks!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
I think that, as magicians, we tend to place way too much emphasis on the originality of moves within a routine. Traditional routines and moves work extremely well when presented properly. But that's the key. The routine must be presented in an entertaining, engaging, polished manner. That's where the originality really needs to come into play.
Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I think there needs to be balance. The routines we do should fit us. They should also fit the context of our act. However, there are some items that, no matter how we alter the patter, will appear to be the same to the spectators however they are performed. Examples of this would be the Ken Brooke Baby Gag. I was actually quite bothered to see this reissued recently, because it had been a staple of Johnny Thompson's act, and he had done a lot of really original work on it. He got a lot out of a piece that many magicians just throw away.
Another problem is the number of people who are doing material that was never intended to be marketed. The Balducci levitation is a good example. This went around among insiders for several years before it was put on the air by David Blaine. Then there was a plethora of people who tried to perform it in circumstances where it didn't fit. It ruined the bit almost completely. OTOH, there were some excellent self-levitations that came about, indirectly because of inspiration from the Balducci.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
I think a part of my thinking is that I've become very aware of what's happening in a performance...certainly I don't know how everything is done, and I'm still entertained, but I have trouble putting myself in the shoes of the spectator. Every time I load a cup, I start worrying that it's completely obvious to anyone watching. What I'm working to overcome is that it's completely obvious to ME because I know what's happening. Those watching the routine, ideally, won't have a clue.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Go back to your silent script. Follow it. Then you won't have anything to worry about.
When you think about what you are doing, people are directed towards what you are doing. When you think about what you are performing, people are directed where you want them to be directed.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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