I'm look for a little more information on a particular blackjack cheating technique.

It enables the dealer to give themselves a massive advantage over the players, far exceeding the usual house edge.

The dealer marks the cards as either high (x-ace) or low (2-7).

When he deals himself his second card, he looks at the back of the two cards and always turns over the low card. If required, I would imagine that a Mexican turnover would create the impression that the left hand card is always being turned.

Players following BS will be at a disadvantage.

For example -

Let's assume I have Ten/Five and my player has Ten/Two. The next card is a ten.

I show him the Five and BS suggests he sits. I draw the ten and bust.
I show him the Ten and BS suggests he draws. He draws the ten and HE busts.

Has anyone heard of this technique?

Posted: Apr 3, 2010 3:34am
I can imagine a crooked house using this system because:

a) it does not required the dealer to be a mechanic.
b) it can be played all night long.
c) it focuses on skilled players and card counters.

It's called the selective upcard. Now go and read.

No need for a mexican turnover either.

Thanks.

Do you mean there is an easier move or that moves are uncessary?.

Mr. Z gave you the name of the move Nick........what he means is go read for the rest of the story.

BTW, you don't need marked cards.

Hi Nicholas,

I've read Steve Forte's Casino Gaming Protection' from cover to cover but do not remember this scam being described except in the glossery of terms. However, I may well have missed it. This tome is sooo comprehensive as to be mind boggling. The only useful description I can find in my admittedly small library is contained in 'How to Detect Casino Cheating' by Bill Zendor. Hope this helps,

Regards,

Paul

Thanks Paul - I appreciate you taking the time to provide some suggested reading.

I don't remember it being in any of Forte books I have either. I have Zender's blackjack book on order so hopefully that will help. I've heard that Grosjean's book might also contain more info.

The only place I've found in written up is in the novel Sucker Bet by James Swain.

Great choice. I think you will enjoy the Zender book. If memory serves, I have a vague feeling that it might have been described incorrectly in Sucker bet. Not sure. I must say I do like some of James Swains novels, they are a bit of a guilty secret.

Regards,

Paul

I haven't, so I spent two hours last night and another 90 minutes today looking for it. Now I know to stop looking.

Still, that was nearly four hours of very interesting reading.

I haven't seen it SF's book, except for the definitions at the back.
Not to say he hasn't written about it.

You may have luck with older issues of "BlackJack Forum" (80's).
Wong has written about it.
Grosjean writes about it as well.

( Big Rock-Little Rock for fans of Tony Valentine.)

On Selective up card...

Does anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?

I always use it in my Crooked Croupier performances. In your OP you say you'd turn up the low card, but if you want to have the advantage, you should turn up the high card, but I'm sure that's what you meant.
I'm also fairly sure I have read about it before, probably in Bill Zender's book. Maybe there's something about this on Dustin D. Marks' tape as well?

wasnt this covered?

Peter - You're 100% correct. You always turn over the high card. No idea why I wrote low. My apologies.

In Sucker Bet, one of the characters uses this technique to allow 84 wins in a row. Obviously, this is a little literary license by the author.

Elsewhere on the Café, Mr England puts the advantage to the dealer during BS play at about 2.78%.

Posted: Apr 23, 2010 5:04am
The zender book arrived today and it has a whole chapter on the technique. Looking forward to reading more.

Now hopefully nick isn't the local dealer where I'm from. haha

The zender book is an interesting read. Mr. Z (ender?) mentions that a mexican turnover is not needed. However, the book mentions that irregular hole cards, i.e. not always turning over the same card, is a tip off that the dealer is up carding. A move, like the Mexican turnover, would certainly cover this.

I wonder what edge, if any, is achieved when against the average player.

"Our" Mr. Z is not Bill Zender, if that's what you were guessing at in the post above.

As to the strength of the selective upcard against the average player, I can't give you an exact percentage because it's so hard to define "average player," but I can assure you it's strong. Perhaps in the 6 - 10% range.

Jason

Oh well - It would have been nice if he was here.

I was discussing the idea of the 'average' player with a dealer (who is also a computer science student) the other night who suggested that you could analyse the behaviour of a large sample of players over time to determine a kind of 'average strategy'. i.e. a table that shows what a player is most likely to do when face with a particular hand.

Thanks Jason

There is a move with this technique that gets the desired result--if you saw it you might think it was like a mexican turnover but the mechanics are quite different.

What are the benefits of the move you suggest?

It looks as if your turning over the same card each time, me thinks.