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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Comedy Mentalism Rabbit (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Risto L.
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 10:46, steveline wrote:
I would like to somehow involve it in an effect (I don't take myself too seriously as you can guess)
I'm quite happy to play the idiot while the rabbit is the star.


If it fits your performing character, and from your description it sounds like it does, go for it! Spectators don`t give a *** whether it`s labeled as magic or mentalism here. This usually dawns on people when they really start performing and entertaining for a living. I think there is one very respected mentalist who has even performed in a gorilla suit. How silly is that? Smile

By the way, Juan Mayoral demonstrated a rabbit that is rigged to pee on command (remote control). He gives the rabbit for someone to hold and asks it about the chosen number, which is then indicated by the spurts of pee. I wouldn`t do that though. That might be inspired by Steve Spill`s Mind Reading Goose, which is worth cheking out if you like the idea of a puppet reading minds in a very entertaining way.

-Risto
Stephen Young
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Thanks Risto.

I saw Juan with his rabbit at Blackpool.


Steve
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Creative people get away with things that most people would never consider. I would never consider the rabbit in my show. How creative are you?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Stephen Young
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My tax inspector says my accounting is very creative. Smile

I am actually very creative, pity my performance skills don't match.
(I'm being honest here)


Steve
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I've just developed a marking system for euro notes of any denomination, so that if you had a stack and some were removed you'd know how many (ala casino Royale)
I thought that was pretty creative.


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Kevin Cook
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 20:33, Dick Christian wrote:
No, they'll think you consider them on the same level of intellect and sophistication as a bunch of 5 or 6 year olds. Rabbit puppets are for magic shows for kids, not demonstrations of mentalism for adults.


What utter twaddle. John Archer uses a stuffed dog in his effect, 'Collard' and performs very successful comedy mentalism shows across Europe. Perhaps the Collard routine would suit your needs, adapted to a pet rabbit?

I would suggest that this is perhaps not the best forum for brainstorming original ideas, simply because many members here are rather set in their ways and unable to think outside the box.
Risto L.
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Well said, Kevin!

-Risto
Lord Of The Horses
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Steve,

I suppose since you specified Euro notes, the marking system is different from the one Becker used...
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Stephen Young
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Hi Lord, I'm not conversant with his marking system.
It doesn't use numbers if that helps.

I could send you some pictures if you want to check it out.

You once said I could contact you via your Gmail address if I needed to buy any of your books, but I've no idea where to find it.


steve
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Christian has no clue what he's talking about. The Mindreading Goose absolutely kills for adult audiences. Adults are entertained, really fooled badly, and the performer gets all the creditas a mindreader. I know this from personal experience. For those not familiar, you can see it on the Ten Years of Steve Spill DVD.
Stephen Young
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The tide is turning.

Rise up you animals, you have nothing to loose but your handlers.


steve
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The tide is NOT turning.

First of all I never said Steve could NOT do that (and I know Steve understood my post) and second of all, Entity warned him that the thing could be too "magical" but he also never stated categorically that it couldn’t be done.

As for Kevin's post - I agree in toto. Collard is a great COMEDY effect (and I love it) and YET - in said effect - the puppy is just a CUTE prop used as premise rather than a HOTEL KEY (or other things)...

But strictly speaking the puppy dog is not reading anyone's mind nor perform any other telepathic feat.

It's John (or - presentational wise - the audience members) who come up with names thus "proving their intuition or gift" by guessing the right name.

So, yes, incidentally a puppy dog is used (and again it's a brilliant piece of comedy mindreading in John Archer's hands) but it could be a key or something else...

Also, if you refer to my previous post,

I think it was Max Maven who said he does not bend metals because he does not fit with his chosen premise / persona / explanation of what he does - Not certainly because he would not know how to do that.

In my opinion because something is feasible does not mean that one must do it, but if you refer once again to my previous post, I told Steve I understood him and that he should decide what it works for HIM.

I would be surprised to see Christian Chelman or the late Punx to mix their bizarre magick with Collard but then I'm old enough to know Christian could jump in this topic and tell me he actually did!

My point is... John Archer is a fine example as is Christian Chelman or Jerome Finley... But I don't think their own styles would match.

So, to wrap up this post of mine, I think someone chose to "attack" Dick Christian because of HOW he voiced HIS OPINION rather than for the opinion itself. Am I wrong?
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markmiller
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You are right.
Magical Dimensions
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Here is an older thread that talks about using puppets and mentalism.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15



Ray
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Dunninger first use a comedy mentalism rabbit routine tt was later adopted and refined by Orsen Wells. It isn't vey well known, but the routine was the basis for Karmilovich's MOAB. It was originally titled, The Mother of All Rabbit Tests (a a refernce to the movie with Billy Crystal). I think there may be a clip of Orsen doing it on The Tonight Show. Other mentalists who have used a rabbit routine are: Phil Goldstein/Maven, Gene Dennis, Kreskin and TA Waters. So it HAS been done numerous times. However, usually the rabbit mentalist routines have been closely guarded secrets. I have done a LOT of research on this (but not as much as Jay Marshall and Bill Larsen) and I have one of the largest libraries containing routines on mentalism using rabbits. Ricky Jay has some nix work on mind reading animals in Learned Pigs and Fireproof Women.

PM me for routines.

I really think that people here are doing you a disserice by trying to dissuade you from the use of a rabbit in mentalism. Don't listen to them. It has been done with great success in the past and it is about time someone reviews the facts and resurrects the old (mind blowingly fabulous) routines.
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<BR>www.TheShockDocShow.com
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<BR>
<BR>http://ballycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/ballycast-024-2009-03-21.mp3
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Dunninger first use a comedy mentalism rabbit routine tt was later adopted and refined by Orsen Wells. It isn't vey well known, but the routine was the basis for Karmilovich's MOAB. It was originally titled, The Mother of All Rabbit Tests (a a refernce to the movie with Billy Crystal). I think there may be a clip of Orsen doing it on The Tonight Show. Other mentalists who have used a rabbit routine are: Phil Goldstein/Maven, Gene Dennis, Kreskin and TA Waters. So it HAS been done numerous times. However, usually the rabbit mentalist routines have been closely guarded secrets. I have done a LOT of research on this (but not as much as Jay Marshall and Bill Larsen) and I have one of the largest libraries containing routines on mentalism using rabbits. Ricky Jay has some nix work on mind reading animals in Learned Pigs and Fireproof Women.

PM me for routines.

I really think that people here are doing you a disserice by trying to dissuade you from the use of a rabbit in mentalism. Don't listen to them. It has been done with great success in the past and it is about time someone reviews the facts and resurrects the old (mind blowingly fabulous) routines.
The Shock Doc
<BR>www.TheShockDocShow.com
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>http://ballycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/ballycast-024-2009-03-21.mp3
<BR>
<BR>"....Jeremy Weiss has the greatest card trick of ALL TIME!"--Jamie D. Grant.
<BR>Start listening to iTricks 11/12/09
Stephen Young
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Maybe I should dig out my copy of Mind Myth and Mammals.


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Dick Christian
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I see absolutely no comparison between Steve Spill's "mindreading goose" routine --which is one of the funniest routines around -- and what Steveline suggested doing with the rabbit puppet. Unless Spill's style, persona and the context of his show has changed markedly since when I used to see him at the Brooke Farm Inn years ago, he performs as a comedy magician -- a context in which his mindreading goose was a perfect fit -- not as a serious mentalist. Inserting a routine that satirizes mindreading in a comedy magic show is entirely appropriate -- in fact I feature a comedy mindreading routine in my own comedy magic show. However, IMO that is entirely a different matter than inserting what is certain to be perceived as a "magic trick," even as a gag, in the middle of what I assume Steveline intends to be a serious program of mentalism.

That is not so say that comedy has no place in the performances of mentalists, it certainly does -- but the (albeit limited) way in which he suggests using the rabbit puppet described in Steve's early posts seems to me (and apparently to several others) as better suited to a magic show for children. The reference to the "Chico the Chimp" routine -- which I have seen a local magician perform several times and which is clearly a routine designed to appeal to young children -- only reinforced that opinion.

As re: Steve's asking

[quote]On 2010-04-06 17:38, steveline wrote:
But If I say "The rabbit wants you to think of a card" they do so. Then I say "The rabbit says it's the six of clubs" assuming it's correct aren't the audience going to think;

How the hell did he know?
[quote]
If that brief description is essentially the sum total of the routine, I maintain that an adult audience that is expecting to be entertained by demonstrations of the abilities of a professional mentalist is more likely to be insulted than amazed. Having said that, if instead of a serious program of mentalism Steve is planning to satirize mentalism -- something akin to the comedy magic acts of Carl Ballentine or Kohl & Company -- then what he suggests, especially if the routine were expanded to include with various gags and bits of business (as is Steve Spill's goose routine), would certainly fit right in, but I didn't get the impression that he had that kind of show in mind.

In a subsequent post on 2010-04-06 17:38, steveline wrote:

Quote:
I realise that from now on anything I post about mentalism will have little credence, but I'm just thinking aloud really and using the Café as a sounding board.

Steve


It was not my intention to dissuade Steve from pursuing his interest in mentalism, or submitting his ideas to the Café for comment -- only to express my opinion that what he described, absent any explanation of the particular context in which it would be presented, seemed much more suited to a kiddie magic show than the performance of a someone who wanted to be perceived as a credible mentalist. If I have misconstrued the nature of the program he has in mind, I am happy to offer my apology.
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