What is your stance on performing a trick infront of someone who has seen it, but you are performing for most at the table or in the group that hasn't seen it?

Clarification: your doing a walk around set for people who havent seen any of the tricks yet that you will show them....you see someone watching that you know has seen some of the tricks that you are about to do. Do you not do them because of the person who has seen them or what...?

My stance: Do the same trick(s), but do not involve anyone who has seen it already in the presentation/spectator involvement.

What do you all think?

What do I think?

Don't do walk around

Why cheapen art to little puzzles
Possibly intruding on personal activities and conversation with "Hi I'm your magician today, can I show you some magic"? Or whatever line.


Command the stage, be a presence, present yourself as a professional artist.

Treat magic as the art it is (or once was considered). Deliver it with grace and style. Respect!

If you were painting would you walk up to a group of people you didn't know and start painting at their table. What about if you were a tuba player? Or even a tuna player?


If you can't find a willing audience learn to busk. Do shows for retirement homes.
Encourage the audience to come to you to enjoy your art. Demand and attract their undivided attention. Magic (and hopefully your work) are worth the time and attention investment.


WOULD A PROFESSIONAL ENTERTAINER EVER DO SOME OF THE THINGS SOME "STROLLING MAGICIANS" DO?

Can you imagine Frank Sinatra ever doing walk around? Frank was a professional entertainer. How about you?

Walk around doesn't equal your act to a bunch of puzzles. Just like any stage act the key is in the patter and the presentation. If you have someone in your audience who has seen the effect before, try to use a different method to reach the same effect.

The old adage never to repeat an effect to the same audience is too simplified. Don't do it IMMEDIATELY. If however your spec's memory of the effect is a month old, they're not going to remember crucial details.

Some effects can be repeated even to a knowing audience, others that rely on heavy misdirection or surprise can't. Learn what effects can be repeated and which can't. There is no one size fits all answer.

Vick, I don't agree with you.

walk around and cheapening the art can have a correlation, and for most people it has, but certainly not for all. at least not for me.

WOW Vick, that was a pretty blanket statement.
Doing walk around cheapens the art to little puzzles???

Quote from Vick:..
WOULD A PROFESSIONAL ENTERTAINER EVER DO SOME OF THE THINGS SOME "STROLLING MAGICIANS" DO?
End of quote.....YES!!!!

My goal is to ENTERTAIN people. I don't know about you but I perform at many walk around strolling venues. All I can say is, by the responses and interactions with my audience my goal was achieved and that's all that matters.

How sad if we as magical entertainers refused to work strolling/walk around venues because it was beneath us or not professional enough using your train of thought. I whole heartily disagree with you and I would also say that the audiences at those type of venues would too.
Just my opinion (respectfully)
David Paul..........

newtomagic... I would say that some effects you certainly can repeat. People love to see reactions from other friends or family who haven't seen it. I too would suggest to have a decent repertoire so that if you run into that situation you can be ready to go without fumbling. There are so many close-up easily resettable effects available that pack small and get super reactions.

Of course what gets the super reactions is the presentation and your interaction that surrounds the effect you are performing that is most important.

I do 3 to 5 tricks at a table.
I break tricks up into sets of 5. It's easy to carry 2 or 3 sets on your body once you know what you are going to do.
I practice each set as a full routine and then take or leave what I need for that particular performance. I usually use different props for each sequence emphasis on usually.
Example: Card Trick Definitely put CardToon and Kids Kards on the list. Remember you're performing for people not other magic enthusiasts.
Paddle Trick Stay away from the Hot Rod. Do Jumping Gems or Ice Cream
Shtick. Mirror Mate if you can find it. (I have them)
I do an Alice in Wonderland bit with it.
Coin trick Hopping halves goes over big. Prestidigitating Halves in
Bo Bo's. I do it with Eisenhower Dollars.Spellbound move.
Okito Box. Tons to pick from.
Ellis Ring I think my favorite routine book for this apparatus is
out of print.
Professors Nightmare Easy and people love it. I also do a form of
Sandsational. get an older copy if you can.

There is a set of 5 with different props. If you do it this way it's
easier on you to come up with a whole.
You can do Thimbles or easy to follow Mentalism ,Keys
Tableware(Shaker) comes to mind. Dice,thread(I never use
the stuff) Thread cringes when it hears my name!

It's also a good idea to routine as many routines as you can do silently.
Sometimes the place is loud. Oh,Rabbit in Hat silk routine by Laflin is
a good one.Tip Streamer and dollar bill.
Look me up I'll help ya!

Let us consider the "typical" walk around gig

A performer has been hired to work a wedding reception ....

The don't know anyone there, what do they do .......?

They go up and interrupt people with "Hi I'm your magician today, can I show you some magic" or what ever undignified line. It's rude and to me unthinkable to say the least.


None of your address the comparison between a painter and a walk around performer. None of you address would Frank Sinatra do it? Saying entertaining is a cover all cop out. I'm discussing presentation. Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Lady Gaga, Ayn Rand and Thomas Harris would never interject themselves upon someone and start performing.


Take it another step and what some consider "street" (street is really busking, not the stuff David Blaine did on TV specials). Walking up to strangers and forcing yourself on them???!!!! That strikes me as extremely anti-social and really weird beyond socially unacceptable


Do you wonder what magic is not considered by most as a performance art?


Can I please suggest the alternative of setting up a table (preferably a mobile one) and performing magic to draw a crowd, where guests can join and enjoy magic at their leisure. A good magician will draw a crowd doing some very visual magic and guests curiosity will draw them to the performance encouraging them to enjoy the magic at their leisure.
Also this creates a focal point which will draw guests and serve as an ice breaker.
Then you are totally in control, it's your show no your yerms and turf. Not all the best miracles can fit into pockets

I've sold the mobile presentation style every time, FOR MORE MONEY and it is better for all


Walk around is undignified and disrespectful. To yourself, to the art and to the guest and hosts. If you don't beleive me next time leave the deck of cards at home and take a tuba. Go do walk around with a tuba ... why not? You are entertaining?



YOU ARE AN ARTIST, CONDUCT YOURSELF LIKE ONE!

Be well

Best wishes and better magic,
Vick

Wow, I just scanned this thread with my Pretentiousness Detector, and it overloaded and blew up!

People busk with instruments all the time. if I had a dime for every jerk with a guitar on the street playing top 40 cover songs asking for money. are they entertaining? not really. Also in nicer restaurants musicians will do walk around with string instruments and its considered elegant and classy to have there performers in your restaurant, and I've seen artist asking to do portraits on the streets in Paris. I can't remember how many times I was asked if I'd let someone draw my portrait (why they would want to other then for money I don't know unless they were doing a artistic study on monsters).
Busking can be a good tool. walk around is a good tool too. If you do it do it the best you can and be entertaining. don't take your magic lightly
just my .02 cents
everyone has to start somewhere we can't all be born experts

Vick, I mean no disrespect at all. I'm just wondering how YOUR approach to people in a walk around situation would be. Not everyone magical performer, as you describe is anti-social, forceful, really weird, etc.etc. Sometimes, no..most times it's about people skills and ones own like-ability. People skills as well as conversational skills are art forms as well.

Would Frank Sinatra walk up to people at a party, and start singing? Well if it really was Frank Sinatra I would think people would be thrilled, don't you?
(You are comparing apples and oranges IMO )

Performing "walk around" situations often gets people who don't know each other
to engage and start conversations. Very often you might, as the magician, ask people their names, introduce them to someone they don't know and involve them in an effect. That's what I'm hired to do. To engage people, to try and make what sometimes is an awkward time for some because they don't know anybody to become more at ease and possibly be the catalyst to start a new friendship.

You mention setting up a table to draw a crowd so people can enjoy at their leisure. I'm sure that works, but sometimes walking around and mingling with the people is much more personal and as I said gets people engaged with others they may or may not know.

I guess it all comes down to your own personal style and interactive skills in this type of setting. Do what works for you and your clients.

David Paul

Seems like a lot was said here, unfortunately I don't think much of it went to the heart of the question.

I mostly perform children's tricks, and most everyone has seen them. That doesn't mean that they don't enjoy watching the trick performed. I've seen a dozen cups and balls routines and I'd like to see a dozen more, or the handling of the same routine by someone else.

Now, if you mean what is my stance on showing the same trick to the same person in a short amount of time the answer is absolutely not. You never perform a trick for the same audience twice. That's not my rule, that's the rule of every magician.

I think there may be a few tricks where it doesn't matter. For example, your self working tricks like the growing head, vanishing bandanna, etc. I'll use those in a couple performances the same day without hesitation. Those are a comedy act and there isn't much to reveal. But the sleight of hand tricks like my spongeball routine, miser's dream, chop cup, etc. Forget about it. I'll switch out between shows, never performing the same one twice. And I don't allow anyone to video tape these for the same reason.

Vick -

you need to spend some time with Danny Orleans and learning about his corp event walk around methods.

It sounds like you just have not seen any GOOD walk around talent and let it form a blanket opinion.

Harry Anderson did terrific walk around, and occasionally still does.

Jim Pace has a terrific strolling magician approach...

To say walk around entertainment cheapens the art is pretty poor taste. If you prefer stage and larger scale entertainment, more power to you... but it does not mean the other paths of entertainment is lacking merit to the art.

I admire you passion for pushing folks to do bigger things... but please do not taint the art with misconceptions that strolling, restaurant, and other style work cheapen the art.

The Art is what it is - entertainment... and it comes in all flavors.

:applause:

Vick,
get over yourself mate,

Magic is Magic in any form or genre. As long as its entertaining, well practised and performed well, anything goes.

Chris

You know what Albert Einstein was quoted as saying in New York Times, March 19, 1940


;-)

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."

So now we have mediocre minds who disagree with you. Truth is you would not be hired to work for the clients who require an entertainer to successfully perform walk around close-up.( at least based on your previous comments)
Respectfully submitted,
David Paul

So Vick, when ya taking over for Lance Burton?


didn't think so....


Im sure one of your mentors and idols - Denny Haney would be vastly disappointed in your views on table hopping and strolling.

You usually post well thought out posts and solid info - but this slanted view of one of the forms of entertainment is certainly disheartening and cheapens the value of your advice overall.

I suggest you spend some time with the folks of the likes of Danny Orleans, Kosta Kimlat, Jim Pace, and Michael Close.

Are you calling them mediocre and guilty of "undignified and disrespectful" actions? You must be... they all do strolling and walk around entertainment.

No quote you provide will serve to bandage the damage you inflicted upon yourself.

Magicians should have a code of conduct similar to martial arts.
We should respect one another. We should agree to disagree.
I have studied many arts and have at times had to read between the lines.
One master teaches one way and the other teaches another way.
Why can't there be a happy medium like grey. Why does everything have to be
black or white? Nobody knows it all.
As for your question newtomagic- study the theory of cancellation or have
multiple sets to rotate out. Do your own magic and they have'nt seen it yet.

Newtomagic,

Welcome to the Magic Café. First of all, I would not listen to Vick. Harry Lorayne, Michael Ammar, Jim Sisti, Richard Osterterlind, (you get the picture) have all performed restaurant magic. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for anyone.

Tablehoppers is a great section to ask a question. Also the search function will provide you with many valuable resources.

Again, welcome to the Magic Café.

This post wins the "Whack-a-Troll" award as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for the hearty laugh, Lion...