|
|
Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
All killer, no filler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OMLSs8t1ng
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
|
|||||||||
rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
But ... but ... it's not what I BELEEEEEEEVE! Don't confuse me with facts! Don't insist on evidence!
Besides, someone who commands respect says the truth doesn't depend on science, because ... well, because HE SAYS SO! |
|||||||||
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I think I'll end up watching the whole video, but he lost me when he said that today is "this is the greatest time there has ever been on this planet, by any measure you choose...."
Nonsense. There are no "scientific" measures of value, period. "Science" cannot measure what is "great" or "good" or virtuous or manly or whatever. The single, most serious failing of science (now listen carefully folks, before you start attacking me), is that it has no internal, built in, ethical standards of any kind. Read that again before attacking me. Science--as science--cannot measure "progress" at all. Period. "Progress" means moving something forward, but moving "forward" is an ethical distinction which science itself cannot make. Value judgments are not scientific, and speaking of "the 'greatest time' is a value judgment. Since science as such does not have a built-in mechanism for making value judgments, it cannot even claim that science is good. A week or two ago there was a thread about meeting Nobel Laureates. Well, I had dinner with a Nobel winning physicist, and talked to him about exactly this point. He fully agreed, and then went on to speak of his "personal" ethical convictions (which, btw, were based on utilitarianism, which is a surprisingly weak choice for someone with his mental talents). He could not--as a scientist--give me a scientific measure for saying something like, "we live in the greatest time in history." I don't know who Michael Specter is, but he is obviously is not a scientist, and he obviously has a blind spot. I'm not calling him an idiot, because I'd still buy him a beer before raking him over the coals at the bar. But I would rake him over the coals. Maybe we *do* live in the greatest time in history. Maybe not. Who gets to decide, and by what scientific measure do we get to decide it? "Science denial"? Why not? What scientist can scientifically persuade me to believe in science? He or she cannot. He or she can only list a bunch of "benefits". Yeah, they've licked polio. Very nice. I'm impressed. So now I'm supposed to hand over my intellectual house keys to them? Give me a scientific argument against, say, rape, and maybe I'll stop my "science denial." |
|||||||||
Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
Quote:
Nonsense. There are no "scientific" measures of value, period. "Science" cannot measure what is "great" or "good" or virtuous or manly or whatever. In a purely abstract sense you may be correct. But I am increasingly believing that science can determine these things from the standpoint of human consciousness. At since it is through consciousness that we experience everything, and since we all very similar neurologically, as our understanding of science and especially neurology improves we can become more and more certain about making value judgements with science to the point that we approach a scientific certainty that wer already experience in other fields. Too talks that address this issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBdQhLXTvNM (Versions of the same talk, the top one is more recent - but aspects of the second are put more nicely.)
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
|
|||||||||
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Davit, I have to do some WORK.
Stop throwing interesting videos at us. Or do it tomorrow. Or do you expect me to develop some kind of self-control? |
|||||||||
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
That is science's strength imo... It doesn't "feel".
That's why human's need to create societies and laws. I will say that anytime is the best time to be alive. If for nothing else, because you're alive. Those in other times have said it, I'm sure in the future they'll say it for their time. Just a positive outlook on your times. Whether or not you accept Science, we're still on the Net. It wasn't around 30 years back. I'm sure you are not running to the Faith Healer next time you get into a serious accident yah?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
|
|||||||||
Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 02:42, stoneunhinged wrote: While I agree with in general with your position, I think the "of any kind" is one step too far. Science is or is meant to be dispassionate - it can cure disease and make the killing of thousands easier. It can be practical or purely theoretical. The ethical standards of science are in terms of its practice - don't invent data, don't discard data you don't like etc. That way lies Schön and Wakefield. Btw, "more beer" is a fine moral position.
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
|
|||||||||
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 03:30, Nosher wrote: All right, then we'll remove the "of any kind" phrase. Scientific methodology must remain consistently methodological, and that is indeed a sort of ethos. Quote:
Btw, "more beer" is a fine moral position. Indeed. Have one: :stout: But I have to wait. It's not yet 10:00 AM, and I have a class at 4:15 to prepare for. |
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
The universe has no meaning; life is absurd.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 06:55, Steve_Mollett wrote: Where do you stand to say this?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts |
I believe the correct place to stand is between the five pink pillars along side the Great Sage Equal of Heaven.
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
|
|||||||||
rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 02:42, stoneunhinged wrote: You don't "believe" or "not believe" in science. Here's how it works: "Here's an observation, a number of observations, and here's the evidence. Here's what it seems to mean. Come up with differing evidence and it'll be time to re-evaluate what it all means. Come up with a belief, or a moral yardstick, or a measure of abstract values and that will change nothing at all, that's a whole different thing." |
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The greatest time I ever had on the planet was when I was a monkey.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 06:55, Steve_Mollett wrote: Did I miss a memo? |
|||||||||
critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
This old argument again.
Let me put in my two centavos: My moral and ethical compass tells me that feeding my family is good. I am a science major, which means that science will likely be my means to feed my family. Thus, to me, science IS good
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 11:44, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Pretty much anywhere; the result is the same.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 18:54, Whit Haydn wrote: It was in French; Albert Camus left it.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
|
|||||||||
Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-13 12:39, tommy wrote: Tripitaka would be proud of you.
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
|
|||||||||
kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
We were somewhere outside of barstow when the drugs began to take hold
Hunter Thompson
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Michael Specter: The danger of science denial (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |