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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Ramsey routine (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Lawrence O
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One quick question? I thought that writings were going into the public domain after 50 years. Since Farelli wrote the book in 1948 how can anyone still own the rights on Farelli's book (and this is not against Martin Breese, just a real question)
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Bill Palmer
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They were copyrighted in England, so, under the new laws, which are retroactive, the copyright will extend until 75 years after Farelli's death.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Woland
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The duration of copyright has been repeatedly extended, on the American side of the water, by enthusiastic Congresses. The "Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act" of 1998 fixed protection of copyright to the life of the author plus 70 years for individual works, and to 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication for corporate or collective works (whichever comes first). The minimum term of the Berne Convention was the creator's life plus 50 years, but unless I am mistaken, the E.U. recognizes a term of the creator's life plus 70 years.

Remarkable in any event, particularly since a patent protects an invention for only 20 years.
Bill Palmer
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The actual duration of copyright is still in flux. Add the Restoration of Copyright Act that was part of the Uruguay rounds, and you will see exactly how confusing it gets to be.

When the US government first set the durations for patents and copyrights, the length of a copyright was 28 years, renewable for another 28. The length of a patent was 17 years, non-renewable. Now, it's a bit more complex, but still there is a great difference between the length of the two forms of protection for IP. The reason is simple and logical, though. A long term for copyright protection encourages intellectual creativity. A short term for patent protection stimulates technological growth.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Woland
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Whether something should be patented or copyrighted depends on the nature of the creation, of course. I recently read in a different discussion at the Café, that the late Burling Hull copyrighted the Svengali Deck when he should have patented it:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5348011

It is interesting that computer hardware is patented, but software is copyrighted. The actual Svengali Deck is "hardware," whereas the routines and use are "software."
Bill Palmer
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However, integrated circuits are copyrighted, because they are made from photographs, and the photographs are copyrighted.

While the Svengali deck is hardware, the routines are actually considered graphics and/or text. Not all graphics and text are software.

That's like claiming that movies are software for projectors and sheet music is software for musical instruments.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pete Biro
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Martin Breese had purchased the publishing rights to the Farelli book, and he granted me permission to produce a limited run of the Cups and Balls routine. This is all explained on page 17 of the book.
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Woland
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But aren't musical scores copyrighted like software, rather than patented? Musical instruments are patented.
Bill Palmer
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Yes, they are. However, musical scores were copyrighted before computer software even existed. It doesn't make musical scores software. It's not a commutative piece of logic.

My van has four wheels. My roller skates have four wheels. Therefore, my van is a roller skate.

SOME musical instruments are patented. Most are not. You can't simply divide the world in to hardware and software, or even hardware, software and firmware.

CD -- hardware or software? Hardware. The contents are software. But the music on the CD is neither hardware nor software, because it does not exist until it is interpreted by a D/A converter. Even then, the music does not exist until it is heard by someone who can recognize it as music and not just some kind of odd noise.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Woland
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Mr. Palmer, thank you for your interest in my comments. I am merely trying to illustrate some of the differences between things that are copyright and things that are patented. "Intellectual property" does not exist in common law, and was deliberately created in order to foster innovation and creation. It just seems odd that creations which are governed by copyright are protected for 100 years while creations that are protected by patent are protected for only 20.
Bill Palmer
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The records of the congressional deliberations leading up the establishment of the US patent office indicate that they wanted technology to move as rapidly as possible. This would be hindered greatly if, for example, the Pullman brakes remained under patent for as long as, say "Misty." Jefferson wrote extensively on this. I think his reasoning is sound.

Interestingly, although software (as a specific example) is protected by copyright, the idea of anyone knocking off an early version of Word Perfect is almost ludicrous.

The copyright law in the US was changed, not because of Sonny Bono, but because of Jacqueline Kennedy. When Debussy's "La Mer" went into the public domain in this country, she was incensed because the Tin Pan Alley writers immediately put together an abominable set of lyrics for it. The Debussy estate didn't get a sou. There were a number of American composers/songwriters who outlived their copyrights. Eubie Blake, for example, lived to see most of his work pass into the public domain.

He remarked that if he had know he was going to live as long as he did, he would have taken better care of himself. That was later traced back to Thurber, among other authors.

There have been inventions that were not covered by patent that remained protected for several decades. One was the Hughes Tool Company oil drilling bit. When an oil company leased one of those bits, they signed a non-disclosure agreement that stated that Hughes would have one of their detectives present each time the drill was brought out of the ground so nobody could photograph it or draw it. They kept it free of copies for about 50 years. Then someone from Reed Roller Bit not only copied it, but they improved it, and since the bit was not patented, they couldn't do squat about it.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Michael Landes
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Quote:
On 2010-05-14 22:36, djkuttdecks wrote:
Lawrence,

Let me start by saying thank you for the insight and wisdom that you put into this community. You gave an excellent list of books as resources for learning more about John Ramsey's work. However, it seems like these books are rather obscure and hard to obtain. Do you have any suggestions as to where I could find these books?

-Lee
The fabulous 100 page farelli book, including dozens of photos of Ramsay performing the various moves,cited by Laurence O, is available as an ebook from lybrary.com
Keith Mitchell
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Quote:
On 2013-08-28 01:33, Michael Landes wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-14 22:36, djkuttdecks wrote:
Lawrence,

Let me start by saying thank you for the insight and wisdom that you put into this community. You gave an excellent list of books as resources for learning more about John Ramsey's work. However, it seems like these books are rather obscure and hard to obtain. Do you have any suggestions as to where I could find these books?

-Lee
The fabulous 100 page farelli book, including dozens of photos of Ramsay performing the various moves,cited by Laurence O, is available as an ebook from lybrary.com


I just checked this out on Lybrary.com and found out that there is only 85 PDF pages. Also discovered other Cups and Balls material as well.
Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
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Owing to requests, I have just reprinted a small run of the Ramsay Cups and Balls book.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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