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Adammcd
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My wife loved the Jason Randell set. She said Carney was good as well but she thought Jason did a nice job. She liked the Matthew Fox trick as well. She did not notice the orange load, the sticky sound. She did say that she noticed him double checking the himber wallet right after turning it over.

Movies that are 1 1/2 can take months to edit. Letterman's filmed at 5ish and played at 11:35. If my wife didn't see the orange maybe they didn't either; there is a lot more to do. Also perhaps in editing a cut away shot looked way worse or suspicious. I would not say that was deliberate by the show or it's producers. We're talking a 1/2 second of an hour show that is not focused on magic. I maintain that 5 hours is not a long time to get every detail right in editing. 3 Cameras means 3 seperate 1 hour viewings for the best shot. Then you have to splice that together in 2 before air time. I don't buy it. It was an oversight, not on purpose.

Adam
The last thing you ever expected, should have been the first.
Mb217
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Quote:
On 2010-05-18 21:33, doceason wrote:
Mb217 I don't under stand your statement

"Seriously, Letterman proves that specs don't see half the stuff that magicians think they ought to see, even when effects aren't done with exact precision."


Quote:
On 2010-05-19 01:12, Jonathan Brown wrote:
Carney was great...the bits with the wand- beautiful. Sure the orange flashed, but through it all, Letterman didn't see it. He was still just as amazed.
Jonathan Brown


Hi Doc,

I basically meant what Jonathan says here.

Many times magicians clamour about what and how to do something when specs have no idea of what you'r doing even sometimes when you do it poorly, as Jason might've done or with Carney flashing the orange. Flashing is not good but Letterman was none the wiser for it. Well anyway that's about what I meant. -Mb
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
TKO MAGIC
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 12:31, BarryFernelius wrote:
As expected, Doc Eason has nailed it. In general, making magic look good on video is extremely difficult. And the non-magic portions of the show 'make it or break it.'

At Magic Con in San Diego, I saw John perform the same routine that he did on Letterman last night. On that occasion, the routine was razor sharp, and it fooled the 250-300 people who saw it. John received a spontaneous standing ovation. (At this particular gathering, two of the magicians received standing ovations during the weekend: John Carney and Juan Tamariz.)

Here are a few of the positive things that I saw in the performance:

1. John didn't do a card trick.
2. The magic was about something.
3. John's routine was his own stuff, not a trick created by someone else.
4. The routine is brilliantly constructed.
5. Letterman's interactions with John didn't wreck the trick.

Perhaps TKO and teevee could tell us a bit about their magical background and experience so that all of us can better understand where they're coming from. They could start by introducing themselves and letting us know their names. (It's so easy to be an armchair magician when you can hide behind your anonymity on the internet.)


Barry , I will gladly tell you my name. Todd Kent.
And Barry please read all my posts. I gave credit where credit is do. I stated JC is one of the greatest close up workers of all time. I also stated I would be worst than any of the guys on this week, because I would be very nervous.
Now for my background. I performed in 22 countries and 49 states. I also run one of the best one day conventions in the USA. Last year I booked John Carney along with David Williamson, Gazzo, Rocco, Geoff Williams on the same bill. They all did a close up show and a stage show.
For your information Gazzo was the biggest hit of the close up show then came David Williamson. The biggest hit of the stage show was Rocco and David Williamson. Over the years I booked and some of them I performed with was Jeff Hobson, Michael Finney, Daryl, David Regal, Rocco, Gregory Wilson, David Williamson, etc... the list goes on and on.
This year I booked my good friend Fielding West, Johnny Thompson and Kevin James. I'm also dedicating this year convention to Rocco.
I learned more from Gazzo and Williamson on being an entertainer first than any book , dvd could teach me.

Tell me Barry , how am I being an armchair quarterback? When all the facts I'm stating are true and the feedback of their performance were quotes from laypeople. Again let me state I love Carney's work it's the best of the best. I own all his books. I would have never hired him if I thought he was horrible. Like I said I'm not taking his skill from him.

Todd Kent

ps. Pete Biro, when are you coming to Kutztown my friend. Did Pepka get a hold of you.
BarryFernelius
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Todd,

I was not denigrating you in any way; I just wanted to have a better idea about where you're coming from. Thanks for the background information. When I lived in Fort Collins, Colorado, I was involved in the Magic in the Rockies convention. I hope that I can attend the Kutztown convention at some time in the future.

Don't misunderstand me; all of us who have commented on David Letterman's Close-up Magic week are, by definition, armchair magicians -- unless we've appeared on Letterman!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
Moxahalla
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I think this is the first time that I've seen close-up magicians confined to using the host's desk as a table surface...tough conditions! but I'm sure the performers were notified well in in advance of the conditions.

(All TV talk shows in the past - always used a simply card table in the middle of the stage, with the show's guests acting as spectators)

Jason was entertaining...but his use of props & gimmicks justifiably resulted in the previous comments made here on his performance.

John's pure sleight-of-hand is the way to go with a host like Letterman...a nice job and a lesson in misdirection. I'm not sure how many laymen would have caught the "flashing", so I don't think it was a huge deal.

One minor point--would it have hurt to "touch-up" the wand with a little paint before using it on TV? (it appeared to have several paint chip missing---tacky)

All in all--both performers have given Magic a big PLUS!

(why isn't this thread posted under "Lights, Camera Action!"?)
TKO MAGIC
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It's hard for me to say what I mean on a post. I love John Carney's work. I attended multiple lectures by him , saw his stage show, close up show, I have all his books, dvd's. I also think he is one of the most knowledgeable magicians out there. All I was doing was quoting what laypeople said at work and I was confused of what he chose to do. It's harder than ever now to perform on tv with tivo, the internet, etc...
TKO MAGIC
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 13:13, Moxahalla wrote:
I think this is the first time that I've seen close-up magicians confined to using the host's desk as a table surface...tough conditions! but I'm sure the performers were notified well in in advance of the conditions.

(All TV talk shows in the past - always used a simply card table in the middle of the stage, with the show's guests acting as spectators)

Jason was entertaining...but his use of props & gimmicks justifiably resulted in the previous comments made here on his performance.

John's pure sleight-of-hand is the way to go with a host like Letterman...a nice job and a lesson in misdirection. I'm not sure how many laymen would have caught the "flashing", so I don't think it was a huge deal.

One minor point--would it have hurt to "touch-up" the wand with a little paint before using it on TV? (it appeared to have several paint chip missing---tacky)

All in all--both performers have given Magic a big PLUS!

(why isn't this thread posted under "Lights, Camera Action!"?)


Moxahalla, you made a great point about Carney's wand. A lot of magicians at the convention said the same thing.
Also almost everybody I talked to at work noticed the orange but not the coconut. They also like Randall's personality a lot better than JC.
BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 13:14, TKO MAGIC wrote:
It's hard for me to say what I mean on a post. I love John Carney's work. I attended multiple lectures by him , saw his stage show, close up show, I have all his books, dvd's. I also think he is one of the most knowledgeable magicians out there. All I was doing was quoting what laypeople said at work and I was confused of what he chose to do. It's harder than ever now to perform on tv with tivo, the internet, etc...


You'll get no argument from me about the difficulty of performing on TV in the internet age!

At Magic Con, Michael Weber told a story about Derren Brown's lottery prediction trick in the UK. FIFTEEN MINUTES after the performance, there was a detailed YouTube video showing how Derren could have done the lottery prediction. Think about that; FIFTEEN MINUTES!

Michael's story shows that it's bloody difficult to protect methods in the internet age. So how do you be successful in spite of the technology? Michael's conclusion: He who has the best STORY, wins.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
lebowski
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Letterman conditions are tough, and obviously everything in Carney's routine had to be redesigned to fit the awkward on the couch next to the desk format. Obviously, if you want to be on Letterman you do it his way or not at all. In any event doing the show seems to be a plus for the performers as well as magic in general. Someone mentioned about the show being edited. I think most shows like this that are shot live are edited in progress and little or nothing is done after the shoot except in very special circumstances like bleeping out swear words.
KevinWisch
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Saw Carney- As all others have stated, I agree that he was multiple times better than Randal. My own personal opinion though- why do a variation of cups and balls on a national TV spot? It's literally one of the most "angley" tricks in the world and the magic community has seen it hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times and lay-people have also seen it many many times (althogh less than magicians, obviously).

For me, his appearance was simply "okay". Carney was visibly nervous- let me add some context here though. At Metro-Magic last year, I was talking with David Roth and he did say that all performers need to treat David with "kid gloves"- otherwise they simply won't air the spot. That probably explains some of the nervousness of the performers. But again, I hate to be a pain- but they sign up for it. It's Letterman- you have millions of people watching you on a nationally televised late-night show.

Originally, I wanted to post on this topic because it really irks me when someone has an opportunity to do a show like Letterman (such as the performers we have on this week) and the magician does bad and then we blame it on the situation or the host. I've looked at comments and while, I know we're all trying to be diplomatic and nice to others (which I'm all for BTW Smile We always say "OMG- look at the tough circumstances! Letterman really went at him" or "Wow... he gave him a hard time and the camera angles were bad"... Well Duh! They SHOULD give them a hard time and they SHOULD know the cameras are going to be covering them at all conceivable angles. If no one tests the magicians that we in the magic community hold up to such a high standard, then all the awards in the world don't mean a thing. Period. It's as if we give magicians awards and accolades and when they are required to perform; we make excuses for them. I'm sorry- if I didn't perform in my job, I'd be fired. Period. As they say, if ya can't take the heat, get outta the kitchen. ;-)

My background? You have to love linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwisch
Summary: 26 years old, hold a BA, MA and MBA. Marketing Manager for Intel Corporation. Experience on Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Have worked on award winning ad campaigns and work with the world's largest ad agencies. Am on the team of two of Intel's largest Facebook presences. Did you watch the SuperBowl this year? I worked directly on Intel's two SuperBowl spots and also was involved in the CBS Post-Game show sponsorship. I'm just lucky I have a few extra seconds in between conference calls to post on this board (which, I obviously don't do often). And yes- Conan and Intel had a sponsorship together until Conan went off the air.

And finally- the BIGGEST reason I have a right to be here on this board: my father is the best *** sleight-of-hand magician I've ever seen. I've begun to work with him on managing his career and am working closely on a new Slydini lecture to commemorate his original tour back in the seventies.

That should satisfy any thoughts of "who the heck is this guy?" Smile (If anyone was wondering). lol
- Kevin
Andrew Zuber
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 11:44, Frank Starsini wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote:
That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....

There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.

Exactly right. Anyone with eyeballs could see that bright orange object being flashed. This should have been rehearsed and the director should have told in rehearsal what does and does not work. I can't speak to Letterman's practices or his staff, but having worked on The Tonight Show for a few years, I sat in on literally hundreds of rehearsals, and I can tell you that this kind of thing, at least in Jay's setting, is completely avoidable.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
kcg5
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The first guy was visibly nervious,but he had a tough spot starting out and all. Carney, as I know him, is a great magician, and I felt he dealt with Dave better. I watched it with my room mate, and he missed the orange-even after I rewound it 2 times for him. That camera angle killed it, but they are cut down on their work area, ect. I hear Ammar has already taped his segment?
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



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bobbyk
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 14:26, Andrewzuber wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-19 11:44, Frank Starsini wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote:
That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....

There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.

Exactly right. Anyone with eyeballs could see that bright orange object being flashed. This should have been rehearsed and the director should have told in rehearsal what does and does not work. I can't speak to Letterman's practices or his staff, but having worked on The Tonight Show for a few years, I sat in on literally hundreds of rehearsals, and I can tell you that this kind of thing, at least in Jay's setting, is completely avoidable.


I don't think there's any question that it could have been avoided... but are you saying that you think they "purposely" looked to expose his method? Or is this more likely a case of somebody somewhere not paying attention? I would suspect the latter but am in no real position to know. The Letterman show is rehearsed isn't it?
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A comment about the wand. I will ask John, but my GUESS... This may have been Bob Read's wand and John would not think of re-painting it. It looks like the wand Bob used in his Penultimate Cups and Balls routine.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
MagicMan1957
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I wonder if these guys even politely ask Letterman or the producer if they can set up a table on stage and not sit awkwardly on an angle at the desk?

Of course Dave did go on about this being close up magic so I guess the assumption is it can be performed right at the desk.

Also I realize performing on television has it's hazards. But the performers know that unblinking overhead camera that cannot be misdirected is there, so why do any move that camera WILL catch?

In the end Magic on TV is always a good thing.
ScottLeavitt
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Personally, I thought Dave treated John very very well last night (someone obviously said something to him after prior nights show), and despite the orange flash (hard to do with a camera directly overhead...) thought that the routine went extremely well. Also glad that Dave gave him a good block of time to do the routine in an unrushed manner...

Perhaps the only way to "fix the angles" is to request that the cameraman only shoot from Dave/audience's perspective...

Hope Steve C wasn't planning on doing his brick production after last night's appearing coconut
teevtee
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>>>>There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.<<<<

The show is "live to tape" what that means is that it is NOT edited afterwards like a movie is, there is no editing session. The director calls for the shots as the show is happening live, barring some incredible malfunction the show goes out as it was viewed live.

The overhead shots are obviously needed to see the desk and see cards etc. it is there to HELP magicians, not expose them. It is unfortunate that the director called for an overhead shot just as the load was happening but also very unlikely intentional, what reason on Earth do we have to believe something like that was done intentionally? And they DO use overhead shots when appropriate with other guests such as chefs during a cooking segment. My point is that there is just no reason to think there is some sort of conspiracy. What we have seen is one very poor / nervous performance and then a second smoother one, but one that chose the incorrect routine. Not only do I agree with others when they say that a fancy take on cups and balls is not really the earth shaking kind of thing a modern audience wants to see on TV but beyond that it is too angly to properly perform on TV. There are so many other routines JC could have chosen that would have been angle safe so as to make the whoel point moot.
teevtee
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Barry:

My name is Ted and I am NOT a professional magician. I have however been involved in magic for well over 30 years at a serious level and of course beyond that in my childhood. Suffice it to say that I have great respect and admiration for those who can really perform under any circumstances, even easy ones so much what these guys are working with.

Still, with that said so far they both have really messed up in my opinion. Jason just flat looked out of his depth as he has on EVERY Letterman appearance I have seen him on. John on the other hand was obviously more professional but in my opinion chose a very poor routine to perform for three reasons:

1) Somewhat confusing and hard to follow to start with

2) Frankly is does not feel new or fresh. Rather to a lay audience it seems like the exact type of magic they have seen forever and therefore it is less likely to engage them

3) It has angle issues. With so many other options why choose something that has that kind of limitation. It is also a poor fit for the odd sitting at corner of desk situation he was dealing with.

Not to beat a dead horse but a guy like Ricky Jay could sit in that same spot with nothing more than a deck of cards and entertain, engage and amaze. I think THAT is what the show is looking for.
lebowski
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Teevtee, two of the most astute posts on the topic so far, but who is the Barry you addressed your second response to?
Fred E. Bert
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I predict that Steve Cohen will shine - not only with his elegant magic but in his handling of Letterman as well.
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