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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 19855 Posts 
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Your first mistake is to think it is all about the "MAGIC". A good portion of that audience tunes in to see Letterman.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TKO MAGIC Regular user 130 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 11:29, Dannydoyle wrote: Exactly, you are an entertainer first. Any one can do a trick, I think Matthew Fox proved that. |
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bobbyk Special user Tennessee 698 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 11:31, TKO MAGIC wrote: Amen to that.... It's Dave's job to be funny, topical etc. it's not his job to make the performer look good...that's the performers job. It would be nice if they all were like Carson was...He really liked to showcase a Magicians performance. But that was then and this is now...no one to blame accept ourselves. If You are given a shot...then it's up to you! 
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Doc Eason V.I.P. Aspen Colorado 428 Posts
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, Dannydoyle Quite right Danny, neither of them engaged DL first to any degree. Walk out, shake hands, sit down and "do a trick magic boy'. sheesh.. that is tough... The positive comments on Randall were mainly about his quips and the interaction - moving the coffee cup etc. His magic sucked, but if he scored at all with the punters it was because of the NON magic parts of his appearance. Seems there is a lesson there... hmm?
Doc Eason’s Rocky Mountain Magic
PO Box 50 / Basalt CO 81621 doc@doceason.com http://doceason.com http://doceasonmagicshop.com |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13365 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote: There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load. That's exposing the load deliberately.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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bobbyk Special user Tennessee 698 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 11:44, Frank Starsini wrote: I wasn't present in the editing session... Certainly they picked the shot...but I don't know that they were purposely trying to expose anything... Do we really know what the other shots or angles would have shown? could they have even been worse? I don't know... but again, if you are leaving your performance up to an editor, cameraman etc... then you are making a big mistake. I have a difficult time believing that they are sitting around saying..."I wonder if we can find a shot that will expose his trick".... If that's whats happening...why ever go on? Having sat in on various editing sessions (not Letterman)....I can tell you that they are turning around stuff very quickly at times and they are not generally trying to make performers look bad.... |
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TKO MAGIC Regular user 130 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 11:41, doceason wrote: I agree Doc, a big lesson here. I couldn't believe the guys at work liked Randall better than Carney. |
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paynow New user 22 Posts
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The fact that Randall did Wow!, an overused trick that screams gimmick, was bad enough. Why, however, would anyone take "Royal Scam" and add a gimmick to it? It's so good on it's own with no wallet. Let John Bannon go on there and do it. I just don't get it. Is this supposed to be adding to the trick and making it your own?
Dave is Dave; it's a comedy show. He's doing the same stuff Ernie Kovacs and to a lesser extent Steve Allen used to do with performers. I really don't think he was treating him unfairly. It's about their schtick and not the performer. You have to be able to adapt. I know I would be a basket case and of course I'll never get the opportunity to be. Maybe going on and doing screw up magic ala Ballantine is the way to go on those shows, but of course that defeats the purpose of promoting the art. I can't wait to see Cohen and Ammar. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18559 Posts
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I was booked to be on the TONIGHT SHOW with Johnny Carson. There was a schedule conflict (my schedule) and I was not able to do the show. In a way I was glad to miss it as I figured I would have been so nervous that I would have blown it. I was thrilled to be asked, but in a way glad I didn't have to do it.
I do think the conditions at Letterman's working on the corner of a desk with you chair on a dopey angle is really awful. Some have said Ricky Jay or Gazzo would prevail. My guess is they would have INSISTED on a different working area.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18559 Posts
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Oh, and my wife was watching with me and did NOT see the Orange load. A thought for any of you doing loads like that. DO NOT USE SOMETHING BRIGHT ORANGE OR YELLOW ... think flesh color... like a potato or an onion.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2532 Posts
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As expected, Doc Eason has nailed it. In general, making magic look good on video is extremely difficult. And the non-magic portions of the show 'make it or break it.'
At Magic Con in San Diego, I saw John perform the same routine that he did on Letterman last night. On that occasion, the routine was razor sharp, and it fooled the 250-300 people who saw it. John received a spontaneous standing ovation. (At this particular gathering, two of the magicians received standing ovations during the weekend: John Carney and Juan Tamariz.) Here are a few of the positive things that I saw in the performance: 1. John didn't do a card trick. 2. The magic was about something. 3. John's routine was his own stuff, not a trick created by someone else. 4. The routine is brilliantly constructed. 5. Letterman's interactions with John didn't wreck the trick. Perhaps TKO and teevee could tell us a bit about their magical background and experience so that all of us can better understand where they're coming from. They could start by introducing themselves and letting us know their names. (It's so easy to be an armchair magician when you can hide behind your anonymity on the internet.)
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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bobbyk Special user Tennessee 698 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 12:25, Pete Biro wrote: I remember many times Carson would have the Performer at his own table and Carson would walk over, sit down and be entertained with the rest of the audience. Unfortunately, even with the increased interest in Magic over the last few years....these guys simply don't seem to care enough to allow the Close up performers their own space. Not sure why...it would seem to be better for all. Performing off the corner of that desk from that chair would seem to be tough duty at best.... Bad place to try and do Cup & ball routine etc. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 19855 Posts
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Close-up magicians have trouble on TV because it shrinks perceptions, while with todays technology it focuses them and enlarges them.
What I mean is misdirection for close-up can involve a whole room. The whole, large movement covers the small movement thingie. Great. On TV you are on this little box so those large movements are not so large in the first place, and look stupid. Now all perceptions are in this little box, which with the technology of today is NOT SO LITTLE ANY MORE but magnified to greater than life sized. A small flash that goes unnoticed in life, is amplified and sent out in HD and bamo you are a hack. This makes close-up magic tough on Tv, and even tougher to actually entertain with. I guess this is where the "engaging the host" lesson comes in handy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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paynow New user 22 Posts
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One thing that I haven't seen mentioned (or maybe I missed it). Carson started out as a magician so my assumption is that he would have had enormous respect and empathy for anyone that would have to go on national TV to perform it.
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2532 Posts
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Oh, and for what it's worth, the people in my workplace thought that John Carney was at least an order of magnitude better than Jason Randal. As always, your mileage may vary, etc.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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spcarlson Veteran user Minneapolis MN 359 Posts
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I’ve heard of Armchair Quarterbacking, is there such a thing as Armchair Magishing?
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 19855 Posts
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I do not have an opinion on better or not, or even if they were good or not. I was simply speaking of the limitations of the medium.
Which incidently is not armchair anything.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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bobbyk Special user Tennessee 698 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 12:27, Pete Biro wrote: GREAT POINT! I noticed that few have mentioned that the COCONUT was also flashed. I didn't see it until I re-ran the segment. I purposely went back looking for the coconut load because I never saw it... but it was flashed same as the orange... but yet the orange was shouting at us while the coconut slipped right by me.... again, GREAT POINT. |
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ChristopherM Special user UK 844 Posts
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It's really positive that there is a showcase on TV for close-up magic on such a high profile chat show. I think the performances so far have been enjoyable and informative. They remind us that we need to have absolutely mastered prop handling, our script, and responses to possible audience questions. Also we need to select material that suits the environment we are in perfectly, and either adapt to the conditions we are given (and not complain after the event) or specify how we want it to be, if we're able to do so. That's a lot to think about for a TV performance! Looking forward to the rest of the week
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RiffRaff Special user 630 Posts
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On 2010-05-19 11:02, TKO MAGIC wrote: I just watched Kate Bekinsale and Jessica Simpson interviews on Letterman. Neither one had the overhead shot. Darn! Anyway, here's Carney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rOBjmLHxgQ |
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Posted: May 19, 2010 10:29 am 
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