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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Sherlock Holmes (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gmeister
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Hi All:

A two-part question if I might. I've always felt that the Sherlock Holmes canon should be essential reading for mentalists (and especially essential reading for readers). In fact, this figures into my current book-in-progress. I just wondered what some others think, yeah or nay, and why.

Second part: I've only seen (that's seen, not read) one work that seems to touch on this -- Richard Tenance's "The Sherlock Holmes Approach to Reading Everybody." However I've done my due diligence by searching here and across the Net and have found almost no reviews/comments. Any one here have some thoughts on this work?

Thanks as always!

gary
cpbartak
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Here are Jheff's comments on this work: http://www.marketplaceofthemind.com/SherlockShells.html

If you peruse amazon, you will find a few books not geared towards mentalists that you might find beneficial reads as well if you choose to go down this path, such as 'You Can Read Anyone' by David Lieberman, and 'The Book of Tells' by Peter Collett.
Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.
gmeister
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Thanks!

Jheff's review is, in fact, the only one I saw when I say "almost no reviews/comments." I was curious why this is, especially in a forum that looks at almost everything and where everyone has an opinion either pro or con.

As for the non-mentalist books, I do know a number of them. What makes Holmes so fascinating is both the fact that it's literature and the marvelous contradiction in Conan-Doyle (rationalist/spiritualist), which of course his friendship/break with Houdini points up in fine fashion.
muse
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 12:37, gmeister wrote:
What makes Holmes so fascinating is both the fact that it's literature and the marvelous contradiction in Conan-Doyle (rationalist/spiritualist)


If you're interested in background to this, and you enjoy reading, try Julian Barnes' book "Arthur and George". It's very slow and meticulous, but it's a masterpiece of a book in my opinion, and it centres around this very thing.
gmeister
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Thanks Muse!

Know Julien Barnes's work and have heard of the book but not read it. I will now.
BryanKelly
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As brilliant as Doyle and his work is, I doubt a study of Holmes would be of any value to a mentalist. Holmes’s observations are kind of anecdotal and pretty exaggerated.

Holmes would best serve as a source of inspiration. Or an illustrative tool to explain to lay people how we do what we do. But trying to find anything of value for us in the books is kind of like a forensic investigator studying CSI.
Jon Hackett
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Unfortunately, BryanKelly, you have it the wrong way around.

Methods are for magicians, inspiration for presentation is all that mentalism is.

"As brilliant as Doyle and his work is, I doubt a study of Holmes would be of any value to a mentalist."

I mean no disrespect Bryan, and I hope to cause no aggravation, (thusly I am wording this as sensitively as possible); that is the most un-true statement I have seen in Penny for some time.

Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
BryanKelly
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On 2010-05-20 09:12, Jon Hackett wrote:
Unfortunately, BryanKelly, you have it the wrong way around.

Methods are for magicians, inspiration for presentation is all that mentalism is.

"As brilliant as Doyle and his work is, I doubt a study of Holmes would be of any value to a mentalist."

I mean no disrespect Bryan, and I hope to cause no aggravation, (thusly I am wording this as sensitively as possible); that is the most un-true statement I have seen in Penny for some time.

Jon Hackett


I appreciate your candor, but when I say "of no value" I purely mean conserning methods. I think that's what the original poster was concidering its usefulness in. I could be wrong though.
Jon Hackett
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Of coarse, very true!

However, his methods (Sherlock) are very useful, especially in terms of the S.H.A.R.E, combine this with Dan Korems book 'Art of Profiling' (yes I believe it is the same Danny Korem from the Marlo tapes) and System 88 from Docc Hilford and a little of Joe Navarro's 'What EveryBODY is Saying.' And you have the ability to sell your self as a profiler, lots of money!

Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
dylan magic
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If memeory recalls banachek mentions the canon of doyles work in psychological subtlties volume 1.
he mentions noticing little things such as how someone fastens their belt can show if theyre right or left handed etc. subtle things like that thrown in at the right moment in a rouine can be strong. the thinking quite similar to the "dunninger ploy". this fits with holmes deduction skills etc.
The cannon is inspiring for its presentation angles, but if youre looking for conan doyle to detail a confabulation routine youre looking in the wrong place.
just my two cents..
Necromancer
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You're on the right track, Gary. T.A. Waters has a thought-provoking essay on this subject as it relates to psychometry in Mind, Myth and Magick.

Read the classics, people. Smile

Best,
Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
Dylan Magic wrote:

If memory recalls banachek mentions the canon of doyles work in psychological subtlties volume 1.


Would that be the canon of conan?

:)
gmeister
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Ouch!!!

But then Holmes might have seen that coming . . .
celebrity
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Just purchased - Richard Tenance's "The Sherlock Holmes Approach to Reading Everybody." will post my comments once I've read it!
As a mentalist you must always ask yourself what if! And throughout your life you should seek to ask and answer this question over and over again, only then will your wildest dreams become a reality!

Visit - www.mindfx.co.uk to learn more!
ElliottB
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I purchased it a while ago. I did not post a review because I only had a chance to give it a quick read, and have not yet even attempted to master the techniques taught within. However, I can say that I found the e-book incredibly fascinating, and would love to give it the attention it clearly deserves, if I can find some time.
magicnewswire
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Slightly different, but there is also the Sherlock Holmes Book Test
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mormonyoyoman
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Quote:
On 2010-05-19 11:52, gmeister wrote:
I've only seen (that's seen, not read) one work that seems to touch on this -- Richard Tenance's "The Sherlock Holmes Approach to Reading Everybody." However I've done my due diligence by searching here and across the Net and have found almost no reviews/comments.


It was reviewed in *the Magic Touch* -- I believe it was issue #2.

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BryanKelly
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To illustrate my point would anyone like to post a single observation that holmes has made that would be useful to a working mentalist? They are simply over exagerated and unrealistic.

Yes his methods are useful because he self-professes his methods as being sound logic, science and reason. But Doyle's examples of Holmes using these methods are vastly over exagerated.

You simply can't deduce that someone is a carpenter by observing that his muscles are more defined in one hand than the other. (as in the red-headed league).

Yes, use Sherlock Holme's approach to reading people. But you're not going to actually find any useful ways of doing so from Sherlock Holmes himself. You'd be best to read Richard Tenance's book for that.
celebrity
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Just finnished Reading Richard Tenancs' book and highly enjoyed it's contents. What I liked most were the tools/skills provided which allow you to personalise your cold reading lines based on general observation.

Whilst the skills taught may NOT be those which were used by Holmes it is very easy to see a link between the two.

Rather than relying on stock lines and barnum statements this book teaches you to open your eyes and use the information that the spectator is providing you.

I firmly believe that whist the Sherlock books may not give you tools that you can use they do teach us about observation and there in lies their value.

Best Wishes Michael
As a mentalist you must always ask yourself what if! And throughout your life you should seek to ask and answer this question over and over again, only then will your wildest dreams become a reality!

Visit - www.mindfx.co.uk to learn more!
Jon Hackett
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Ok, so Holmes is a fictional character in a fictional world, observing fictional events.

Yet it is all totally believable because the beauty of the language suspends our disbelief.

Starting to see the value yet?

Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
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