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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » BP ...the Santa Rant » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicSanta
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As most are aware an accident occurred and oil is being let loose to swim in the gulf of Mexico causing distress and the chomping of teeth. This is, clearly, a terrible situation and the only ones happy about it happening are the environmentalists. They are thrilled about it, they love it.

I know they will get it plugged and cleaned up, well except in the minds of the environmentalist, and then everyone will celebrate how the president responded with urgency and saved the planet...hooray! That is fine and good but what makes me angry is that BP, a company who's CEO goes on TV after months of saying "we are not making money off phony oil prices...oh our profits are up billions of dollars this quarter!", is going to make us pay for it. I know the consumer always gets it in the shorts but I'll be honest with you. If paying for the clean up costs BP their very existence and their stock drops to zero dollars then I'd be fine with that. Their investors didn't stand up and say "goodness, we made too much money on our shares and should return it to the poor consumer". No they didn't. So let them take in on the chin. I'm tired of people who raked it in turning around and suing when they don't...if you own BP stock tough @%#$@! you should lose it all if that is the way it goes down. Another thing, any other oil company that raises their prices because they can use the excuse that BP does it should be investigated and fined and their stock owners taking the hit as well.

I'm just tired of it all. Tired of being expected to make investors in these companies wealthy because they can't accept the fact that sometimes investments go South. Clean up the oil, shut up and take your lumps BP, like too many of us have due to an economy that YOU contributed to the failure of. If anyone thinks I'll miss BP Oil for one minute if they lose everything to pay for the clean up they would be wrong, but the drivers around the world shouldn't have to and every time they raise prices they raise the price on every thing we purchase.
jazzy snazzy
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Smile
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thorndyke
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As an evil money grubbing conservative, I say I agree - hang em high!
Kent Wong
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Santa, I agree with you completely. But I've heard even more disturbing rumours. Apparently, there is some law out there in the U.S. that places a "cap" on damages an oil company may suffer? I also heard that, even years and years after the Alaskan oil spill, Exxon has still not fulfilled its clean up obligations. Instead, it pursued every appeal possible and reduced its damages down to almost nothing. So, it seems that U.S. legislation (or politics) is heavily in favour of the big oil companies.

In this case, however, I wonder if the claims would be limited to U.S. law. After all, countries all over the world have been affected by this man made catastrophe. This may extend into the realm of international law.

Kent
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Magnus Eisengrim
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I hate to ask this, but do we know that BP was negligent? Or does it matter?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
TomBoleware
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I don't see where negligent has anything to do with it. BP owns it they should fix it. If the law has a cap then they (US) fixs everything above the cap. it must be fixed.


Hard to believe a company spokesman could be stupid enough to say something like this: But this is floating around the net:

"British Petroleum (BP) rep Randy Prescott made a comment, "Louisiana isn't the only place that has shrimp." His office number is (713) 323-4093 His email is randy.prescott@bp.com. Give him a call or send an email. Tell him "BP isn't the only place that has fuel for my car!"


Now, in all fairness, certainly BP CEO has said, and I'm sure he does. "I want this to end as much as anybody else. I want my life back."


Tom
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Destiny
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I saw a list of BPs safety infringements compared to other oil companies - don't remember the figures but they were way way ahead - they should be made spend every necessary dollar to clean this up.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-06-04 12:53, TomBoleware wrote:
I don't see where negligent has anything to do with it. BP owns it they should fix it. If the law has a cap then they (US) fixs everything above the cap. it must be fixed.


These are two issues.
(1) Was BP negligent?
(2) Is BP responsible.

It seems to me that the answer to (2) is clearly "yes", but I don't know the answer to (1). But the answer to (1) is still very important.

Quote:
Hard to believe a company spokesman could be stupid enough to say something like this: But this is floating around the net:

"British Petroleum (BP) rep Randy Prescott made a comment, "Louisiana isn't the only place that has shrimp."


But is it true? Is there a BP rep named Randy Prescott, and did he say this? And if he did, was it in the context of the spill? I can't find a single mainstream news source that carries the quotation.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
TomBoleware
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Yes there is a BP rep named Randy Prescott, and I've been told it was taken out of context. It was a respond to worried restaurateurs facing rising prices for shrimp and oysters.

Still, I can't imagine not having Louisiana shrimp. I love em, and personally think all those that did have something to do with destroying them should face a little harassing. Smile

I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose, but to me negligent doesn't change a thing. They can't change it, just fix it.

Tom
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Magnus Eisengrim
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Seems that negligence would leave BP vulnerable to paying punative damages. But responsibility alone would not.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
jazzy snazzy
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Kent, the Oil Spill Act of 1990 set a liability cap of $70 million.
Obama and Congress are now going through the process of changing that.

BP lied in Valdez and they lied in the Guf of Mexico. The assertion on the drilling permits stated that they could control a spill of 250,000 gallons per day. - Obviously untrue.

Cong. Ed Markey is leading the panel investigating this and testimony will surface as to the events that led up to the explosion. It should be a real eye-opener.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
jazzy snazzy
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It is astounding to me that everything that was learned from the Valdez incident has been totally forgotten.

The events are repeating themselves on the media, word for word.
People are shocked and surprised by this when in fact it is yet another re-run of the same bad movie with the same script and the same actors, but with a much more ominous outcome.

It's impossible to describe the boundless arrogance and galloping greed of these companies. One needs to experience it first-hand to understand how vulnerable we really are.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
TomBoleware
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The sad thing is, no matter how much they sue for, (or BP hands out)
it will never make it down to those that need/deserve it.
Giving money to lawyers and politicians to pass out is a joke.
This won’t be handled any better than Katrina.

Tom
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Kent Wong
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There are different standards of accountability in the law that go beyond negligence. Traditionally, if your actions or omissions fall below a reasonable standard of care and someone suffers damage, that is called negligence and you can be held responsible.

However, with extremely dangerous situations, we get the other end of the spectrum. This may come to play where a company is disposing of toxic chemicals. In that case, if something bad happens and others suffer damage, you are held responsible regardless of whether you were negligent. That is known as absolute liability. If the Sh*t hits the fan, you're the fan. No excuses. No defence. End of story.

In between, but still on the high extreme end of the spectrum is strict liability. These offences arise where the likelihood for extreme damage exists, but where defences can still be raised.

Where should offshore drilling be placed on this spectrum? Should the standard benchmark of negligence apply or should it be raised to something hiher? Strict liability? Absolute liability?

The sad reality is that, in a worse case scenario, BP is likely to simply declare bankruptcy and close its doors. Then, in about 6 months time, the same players will likely open up shop again under a different corporate name. Nothing will be fixed. No damages will be paid. And the same players keep playing the game. I'm not sure how things are set up in the U.S. but, in Canada, the laws are such that directors of corporations can also be held personally and criminally liable for environmental offences. We've actually pursued personal assets and sent directors to jail as a result of environmental contaminations.

Kent
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Magnus Eisengrim
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Thanks Kent. That clears up a couple of things for me.

Nice to see you at NOTS; hope you stay around.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Kevin Ridgeway
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Quote:
On 2010-06-04 12:53, TomBoleware wrote:
Now, in all fairness, certainly BP CEO has said, and I'm sure he does. "I want this to end as much as anybody else. I want my life back."
Tom


How is that is all fairness? I'm sure the families of the 11 dead oil rig workers want theirs lives back too? I'm sure the men and women that fish and otherwise used to earn a living from this area want theirs lives back also.

His statement is NOT in all fairness at all. It is purely selfish, thoughtless, calculated and cold.

Kevin
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tommy
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Who cares what Environ the Mentalist thinks?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
MagicSanta
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Actually things do happen with built structures and rigs have sunk and burned down before. What iritates me is that they didn't seem to have anything ready to address those issues should they come along. $70 million? They'll cover that in a couple weeks, keep prices higher, then announce record profits. That is the other thing that gets me.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On 2010-06-04 18:26, Living Illusions wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-04 12:53, TomBoleware wrote:
Now, in all fairness, certainly BP CEO has said, and I'm sure he does. "I want this to end as much as anybody else. I want my life back."
Tom


How is that is all fairness? I'm sure the families of the 11 dead oil rig workers want theirs lives back too? I'm sure the men and women that fish and otherwise used to earn a living from this area want theirs lives back also.

His statement is NOT in all fairness at all. It is purely selfish, thoughtless, calculated and cold.

Kevin



Oh I'm certainly not taking up for him, just saying what he said.
I'm simply saying that his words and his apology have been much
better than Prescott and the others.

I completely agree it is sad. The 11 dead have been brushed aside by almost everyone.
And I'm sure the same will happen with the fishermen.

Tom
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-06-04 00:53, MagicSanta wrote:
As most are aware an accident occurred and ... the only ones happy about it happening are the environmentalists. They are thrilled about it, they love it....


? any one in particular, a self defined group, all such?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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