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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I see this question a lot in the kiddie forum.
In the kiddie forum, magicians want to know what the reaction is from specific tricks. In other forums, unless the question comes from a rank amateur, it seems well known that the reaction comes from whatever the he77 the magician dreams up as a presentation and how it suits his character. Here, it seems that the trick itself is responsible for the reactions. Does anyone else notice this? Is it your trick selecton that makes your show good? Or is it you? And why is the kiddie forum different?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-06-04 02:05, Frank Starsini wrote: Yes absolutely. That was an attempt at humor, but I think it's both. The basis of the performance is "you" (by which I mean "me"), but as "you" you have to pick the right tricks for your character and audience. I try to pick tricks/effects/routines that I like, do well and get good reactions from. I have other trick/effect/routines that fulfill one or even two of these requirements, but not the other(s) so I don't do them very often.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
Maybe it's because
(1) of the cost of different props / routines. Children's magic has 1000s of different items we could use (and some seem to use loads!!) Certainly, the cost and variety exceeds any other branch of magic. I have to think hard and long about the next routine to get / make from plans or lecture notes to improve one of my shows. Yesterday, I made three illusions and asked about the cost of importing a larger one from the USA; (2) lots of amateurs start out as kids themselves, or start out with kids audiences. They seem to want confidence from their peers before cloning some-one else's routine; (3) this forum seems to really push the designs of some producers and it can be hard to stay away from "keeping up with the Jones".
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
It really depends on how you look at your own show. There are 4 categories for this:
1. If they just want a standard kids show that makes money, then they are normally content with a dove pan and colouring book. 2. If they are an adult close-up entertainer whose been asked to do a kids show and wants to 'convert' the close-up tricks they already know. 3.If they want to prove themselves better than the local competition, and so they want the latest release from the dealers. 4. If they want to prove themselves in a magic competition and so they want to invent new routine and tricks. Each magician in there own category will give you a different response to the same question. |
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
I'm not in any of those categories
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Frank
There are a lot of things that go on here at the little darlings that would be laughable at other forums of the magic Café, and it quite often baffels me to read such questions from professionals. At other forums people want to be original, creative, and different, but here everybody wants to be the same. I just can't figure it out. Apparently there is a formula for success that childrens magicians all want to follow. You buy the same tricks, use them the same way, and everybody here slaps you on the back for doing the right thing. I don't think kids are that stupid. In fact I think that kids are much smarter than their parents.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Kids certainly have a greater capacity to enjoy the different and off-beat, and are more quickly bored with the mundane. So those who feel some lack in character and creativity attempt to buy tricks with all that built into them. Hopefully, those performers grow a character and gain a bit of confidence to step out on their own creativity. Unfortunately, that often comes after falling flat with the "all in the box" tricks and pressing it through to find yourself as a magician.
Ed |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
It is due to large numbers. Clearly there are some here in this section that can elevate themselves as kids show performers by claiming certain effects. They are wanna be's and never beens. When I see someone who's entire show consist of seven wolf products (fine and well made products) and thus they have a great show I know they don't know what they are talking bout. I've seen 'em list a handful of Blaine type effects and think it is a show for kids and claim four year olds love it. The one that killed it for me was the guy who stated that his kids show was not funny because magic should always be serious, and he meant it! For little kids the show can have no magic, in the normal fashion, and be a great magic show. It isn't until they get older do you have to start doing better and mysterious magic.
The short answer is Frank is right. |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
My background is in clowning, among other things. I've seen the same sort of focus on make-up and costume among clowns as I see on particular kid tricks here. I also see the same thing among ventriloquists with the focus on puppets. It's a little frustrating if you're among those who see clearly that these trappings.. the tricks, costumes, make-up, puppets etc. are not the point, they are only tools. I actually taught a clown class for a few semesters at a community college. I quit teaching after a while because I found that I was unable to overcome this mindset in my students. I wanted to work on skills, gags, bits of business, physical comedy, authentic character development... my students were only interested in make-up, costume and maybe balloons. This was my shortcoming as a teacher, that I couldn't get them to see what clowning actually is. But also I believe that a lot of folks who are attracted to clowning are people who are not naturally very good in front of an audience. Perhaps they are hoping that the make-up and costume can either hide that fact, or perhaps to help them feel protected, or maybe, and I suspect this is most often the case, they think that the make-up and costume ARE the clown and if they have really good make-up and costume that they will be really good clowns. I don't fault them for this, it's often the best they can do. Many who start this way do evolve as performers. But I have known folks who have been clowning since the 70's who are no better than they were thirty years ago and no closer to understanding what they're missing. I remember the most telling moment of my time teaching clowning. We were getting ready for the graduation performance and this one little lady clown asked me, "When are you going to teach us how to be funny?" I realized I didn't know how to teach that, and it's the main thing I should be teaching them. That was my last clown class.
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
FWIW I notice the same behavior in other forums as well.
In the Penny for your thoughts forum, same as here, it's normal for some people to wonder about the impact of a particular effect and for others to say that it depends on the performer and the presentation.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
That is a wacky area too. Berkeley....nice.
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Great post Mr. Pitts. I found that to be particularly interesting. Thanks for taking the time to write that.
These folks were discarding what you were there to offer which actually do make a clown entertaining, and instead focusing on the props: make-up, costume, etc. A perfect parallel. Your props, your backdrop, your costume, your make-up, the magician vanity plate, the cool business cards, the flyer, colorful tables, wacky drapes, and big box tricks make you no more entertaining than the person that wants to be a clown and has an EXPERT paint their face flawlessly and spends $2,000 on the perfect outfit. Either way, a clown or a magician; without talent and thoughtful preparation, you're just a guy that bought a bunch of stuff. Seadawg, I do agree with you but like I said in the first post, it's usually from rank amateurs. Here, we find those same ideas from people that have been supposedly doing magic for a long long time; gathering together and worshiping a prop/trick like it was the holy grail.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Maybe it's just the way it's being asked in this section.
To me, "Does it play well" is not that odd of a question to ask. The demand for reviews seems to be high in all the magic forums to me. Some probably much higher than this one. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Tom
I respectfully disagree with you, creativity is encouraged at most other forums of the magic Café, and this is the only forum that I know of where everybody is encouraged to be the same. In my opinion there is no correct formula for being a good childrens magician.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I find that kid show performers are more willing to share than any other group of magicians.
Therefore the asking will naturally be more here. Most kid show workers could care less about who gets credit for moving the pinky finger to right. I'm not sure there is enough original routines for every trick to go around. Why not use a proven winner? Still I agree, encouraging creativity is a good thing. It shouldn't always be the complete answer but probably should be encouraged more. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Tom
We so rarely disagree, I knew that after further clarification we would wind up agreeing.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Al, I'm slow but sure.
Thanks for allowing me time to catch up. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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keeblem Inner circle Essex, UK 1167 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-06-05 12:15, Al Angello wrote: I don't think that is true at all. I don't think anybody here wants to be the same as everyone else. We may like the same props, be inspired by the same routines - but that doesn't mean we want to be the same. Surely the complete opposite is true? Mark |
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
When it comes to hiring a performer for a kids party, many adults have the attitude that the performer doesn't have to be great, these are JUST kids. Some would-be performers actually believe this crap.
As anyone who has performed regularly before children will attest, more skill is required to keep a child's attention, than to keep the attention of an adult. When I look into my prop case, it's obvious that I don't depend on the props to hold attention. There's nothing inherently interesting about any of them! It's how they are used and the situations I find myself in. |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
I had a thought, one that perhaps is more directly relevant, and maybe less judgemental than my previous post. If you didn't catch the 'lookin' down my nose' tone, good, if you did, sorry about that.
I remember being a young performer, and I must confess that I too was obsessed with the right puppet, the right costume, the right trick. I was looking for things outside of myself to make me a good entertainer. It took me a long time, years, to figure out that the entertainment had to come from inside me. This happened slowly, by observing other performers and becoming more discerning about the quality of what I saw. I too started building my act by copying things I liked about other performers, and then, as my confidence grew, creating my own stuff and trying it out. Many of us start out doing kidshows. We figure they're more forgiving audiences and easier gigs to get. An experienced kids entertainer will tell you that being a good children's entertainer is not easy, but it does make more sense getting in front of an audience for the first time at a nephew's birthday party for free, than at a high paying corporate gig. For that reason, I think there are probably more performers in this area who are kind of new at paying gigs. By 'kind of new' I mean less than ten years experience. Maybe I was a slow learner, but it took me that long before I really knew who I was as a performer and had the confidence to listen to and trust myself and my audience over what other clowns and magicians were telling me, not only directly, but also by what they were doing, at conventions and club meetings. I think that's been one of the most important things in building my own act, just being able to trust my own ideas enough to try them out. Not that my own ideas have always worked, but enough success has made me willing to keep trying them. I still have a mix of some standard things, but always trying to create new, original material just makes it much more fun and satisfying, hopefully for my audiences as well. But I have to remember, when there are newer performers around sincerely trying to learn, that I was there, and it takes time to start trusting your own untried ideas over somebody else's idea that has a track record. So, people do throw that out there "so what are the reactions to this trick (because I don't have enough experience to trust my own ideas yet)?" |
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