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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » The Bicycle 809 Mandolin deck (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonathan Townsend
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It's a funny thing that happens when they look at the backs and do the flip thing to see if they're marked and then (in this case) wonder where the cards came from since they were not seen at CostCo.
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Kaylan
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Good point, Cameron
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-06-12 12:10, Cameron Francis wrote:... So my question is, why wouldn't a spectator accepts these as normal cards?


Same reason they don't accept most packs a magician takes out as normal and instead want to look at the cards. Especially if they are a brand that does not come from costo, much less are handled like precious paper instead of a three dollar pack of cards that you've let some be signed and used for a while.

IMHO we have two challenges. First to make sure these are seen as ordinary and common rather than precious items. Second to make sure we keep our traps shut about the availability of gaffs.

Please be up to those challenges. The first is USPCC who can flood the market with "new for 2011, 809's for the new improved sound" or similar. The second is for us who need to keep our ads and discussions of such somewhat quiet.
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Dan Bernier
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Being that Paul Harris directed the developement of this deck, this is just another custom deck made by USPC. I don't believe it's actually a deck that USPC made, but a deck that PH is having made by the company. That is why USPC is not concerned about trademark infrigments. The deck may closely resemble Bikes, but are different enough on the backs allowing the backs to be altered for gaff cards.

The deck will apparently only be available through Murphy's, so laypeople will not be familiar with them.

However, they do closely resemble Bikes so they might fly under the radar with most laypersons.

Now, the only question is, how much for a deck? Will we be paying the price for a custome deck? Or, will the price be the same or less than regular decks on the open market?
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Voldemort
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Here's another thread on the subject.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=2&39

Just don't want to re-type everything I've already typed. Smile
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Dan Bernier
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Thanks for that link. Sounds like Cardshark is very worried and bitter about the new deck. Smile
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Failed Magician
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He must be, as now people might just re-design Mandolin for their needs.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
ryesteve
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I find it amazing that people will express concern that spectators will notice and question the difference in card back designs, and yet in other threads where people are discussing effects and methods that consist of ridiculously transparent forces, or props that require unnecessarily bold handling, no one seems to worry that spectators will see right through those. Depending on which thread you're looking at, you'd either think spectators are a bunch of morons, or they're savants with OCD who notice everything.
Jonathan Townsend
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I dunno about the threads ryesteve, but if you get in front of people and find out then you will know.
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Nechto
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I'm 100% with Cameron here. There is nothing to suggest in the design that these are trick cards , at the end of the day they aren't!! Why is everyone so bothered about what the layman will think of the slight differences? If a spectator does notice the back design and isn't satisfied they are just cards AFTER you let them inspect them, then either you are giving off some dodgy vibes or the spectator is a freak and should be ignored!!

Too much attention is given to this detail, I am more interested in what the outcome will be of the inevitable battle between Phoenix vs Mandolins. I have met Cardshark a few times at conventions and he is a funny man and I have always wanted the best for him, I fear it wI'll be a shame to see a massive corporate giant crush someone who filled a void that the corporate giant ignored in the first place. I think I will stick with my Phoenix decks just out of principle really!

Oh, but hang on, what about what all the laypeople will say when they see the Phoenix design??? Oh yeah, they didn't care!

Ben
Card-Shark
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@Gospel Dan: No, I am NOT worried about the new deck, actually I am happy about it. Because it starts a discussion that had to start someday. Why should it be so important how the back of a card looks like? As long as you are not limited to whatsoever when doing your magic... go ahead.

I am dealing about designing and producing gaffed cards for years now. There is a reason why I started from scratch and came up with the Bicycle alternative... And it had nothing to do with the fact that USPCC stopped producing gaffs for magicians.

It is already no big deal here in Europe and Asia for the Phoenix, only perhaps in the USA. Why do magicians like Joshua Jay, some of the Flicking Fingers or David Williamson move over to Phoenix? Why does the Magic magazine allow to show Phoenix cards when it comes to trick explanations?

Because it is also about quality and freedom.
You would never discuss with a violinist that he uses a Stradivari or a pianist that he uses a high value piano. They are professionals and it is their professionalism that drove them to these instruments. A lay person would never DARE to ask them why they don´t use a common violin from a normal music store. If you are a professional working magician you should be allowed to use high class material. And if it is not available everywhere.. so what? I can´t find a Stradivari at Wallmart!

If I am a hobbyist magician and people would ask me about the playing cards I would care about my performance and my spectator management.
If your magic looks like tricks of a trickster, this is your problem, not the problem of ANY cards.
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Dan Bernier
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USPCC has NOT stopped producing gaffs for magicians. You of all people know that. Why you keep on saying that is beyond me. You have also been corrected numerous times in regards to that as well.

Also, if you go all the way back to one of your threads about the Phoenix, you clearly state why you started making the Phoenix decks, so please don't insult my intelligence thank you.

I wish you all the best with your custom deck made by USPCC. I sincerely do. SmileI have no beef with you. I just don't care too much about your marketing style, and your need to put down other custom decks, or to invade threads to push your decks.

I have no reason to believe that your deck will ever replace Bikes considering that Phoenix are not widely sold, nor will you ever be able to compete with them. And, considering you are using the same company to produce your own cards makes your chances very slim. But, I am all for those who have a vision and a dream.

Although I collect custom cards as a side hobby, and have over 80 different kinds to my collection so far, I do not own a Phoenix deck. Only because I am not fond of how they look. I do like Gummy bears though.(lol)

P.S As I have mentioned several times already. The backs shouldn't matter at all. It's more of a preference to the magician than a problem. The only things that matters is the appeal of the cards, the price of the cards, and how easy they can be obtained. If someone is a flourish kind of guy, then perhaps even the quality.

For me, what matters is, can I purchase the deck locally from pretty much any store? Do I like the look of the cards? Are they cheap enough that I can afford to destroy some of them in the process of performing a card trick? Yes to all those answers are good enough for me.

I also have to say that your example using the violinist and pianist was way out in left field. Huge difference between music and magic. Just silly to even try to rationize anything when trying to compare apples to running shoes. Smile

Another note of correction: Phoenix are not a Bike alternative. Phoenix are classified as a custom deck. A custom deck that you have USPCC make for you. If Phoenix are to be an alternative, they would be on the same shelves, in the same stores as them.
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Dan Bernier
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With that all said, I hear that the Bicycle 809 Mandolin deck will eventually be available in the same places as the Bikes.

If anything, it sounds like 809 Mandolin would technically be considered as a Bike alternative.

So, no more solicatating or cheap plugs on other cards that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Smile

Oh, I almost forgot to mention. I don't really care who uses what deck in the magic industry. Just because so and so uses a certain deck has no influence on me whats-so-ever. I'm not a little kid who feels like I should have and use what others are using. I have my own taste, and I have my own mind. A magician or magazine endorseing a deck of cards doesn't influence my decision one bit.
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Failed Magician
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Thanks Dan for sharing your opinion. As for me, I'm happy with Mandolin. I'm trying not to be fussy about the different back design as for the audience, they both look pretty much the same.

The reason, main reason, I will use Mandolin is because -perhaps- in the future all gaff cards from old or new tricks would be printed on Mandolin. And also, quoting from you, "it will be available in the same places as the Bikes."

I do collect custom decks, even not many, but I'm not gonna spend money to use custom deck to do tricks. First is because economic reason, and second I like consistency. I only bring Red Back Rider so far, so with or without gaff cards, they would always look the same. This is also the reason why I will love to switch to Mandolin when the time comes.

As comes to Phoenix, I keep my own opinion that it is a custom deck, not a regular deck as Rider Back. It's just like Shadow Masters Deck, they have Shadow Masters, then Shadow Masters Rising Deck or Invisible Deck (or is it Svengali? CMIIW).

Anyway, I'm pretty sure if Mandolin would take over Rider Back, it will take a while. There are still many custom designed gaff cards available in the market. Unless these cards are out of stock, Rider Back will still be the favorite deck to perform.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
Steve Brooks
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There is something more I should add to this discussion: Like Richard Turner's Gold Seal Decks, the new Mandolin Decks are Traditionally Cut as opposed to the way Rider Back's, Bee's, etc are normally cut from the press.

Traditionally Cut cards ensure that card men and magicians can easily interlace the cards to produce crisp, clean shuffles, especially with some of the more intricate shuffling techniques like the one-handed shuffle, and the faro shuffle, both in-hand, and on the table.

That's a plus right there me thinks. Smile
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magicnewswire
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I posted a comment about this ins SAM Convention thread, but realized that there would be enough interest in this that it was probably worthy of a thread of its own.

At SAM I spoke to Richard "The Cheat" Turner who was at the convention promoting the new 809 Mandolin Back playing cards from USPC. Unlike the 808 Bicycles, the USPC WILL manufacture all gaffs for this deck which were once available for Bicycles.

Fore more info have a look here: http://bit.ly/cWW6j2

Here's the artwork for the cards and the box:

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Review King
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Quote:
On 2010-06-12 15:46, tdowell wrote:
If someone had brought out a pack of these new "mandolin" cards, I probably wouldn't have even been able to tell that it wasn't a normal "rider back" deck. They look so similar.


Same here.
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the saddest are, "It might have been"

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The great Gumbini
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Wow all this over a deck of cards! Ok folks heres the way to test the "lay persons" knowledge of card backs. Ask them what design is on the back of a deck of Bicycle cards? I have been to Poker Night over many friends homes and we have used Bicycle, Hoyle and a lot of "off the wall" brands. If I can get a gimmicked deck in Bicycle I mostly feel good about it---but if it happens to be an "off brand" I'm ok with it too. But I will leave everyone with one MOST IMPORTANT tip: Whatever brand you use please DO NOT say "Here I have a normal deck of cards..." That one opening line WILL make people question and suspect your cards---even if they are normal. I say this mostly to anyone who may new to magic as I'm sure most of us who have been doing this for awhile already know this tip. BTW I have found that a good deck switch AFTER the marked deck effect is completed and then the deck handed out as a gift is a pretty good way of quieting those who doubt your cards.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Magic Spank
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Do the naysayers here (Jon) honestly think a layperson would notice the difference between that and a rider back?

Really?

With a straight face you can really say that? I wouldn't even notice myself. Just put them in a rider back box.

Comparing it to a Fox lake deck?

Really?

Magicians say the strangest things when they're trolling Smile
Voldemort
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Quote:
On 2010-07-06 04:50, Magic Spank wrote:
Do the naysayers here (Jon) honestly think a layperson would notice the difference between that and a rider back?

Really?

With a straight face you can really say that? I wouldn't even notice myself. Just put them in a rider back box.

Comparing it to a Fox lake deck?

Really?

Magicians say the strangest things when they're trolling Smile


Magicians DO say the strangest things when they're trolling. As is evident by the above post. Smile
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