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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Misdirection (Physical, Psychological & Verbal) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bill Palmer
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If there were only room enough on the planet for the opinions and/or style of just one magician...



I would be getting all the work! Smile
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2010-06-24 14:49, panlives wrote:

To be sentient in this life is a marvel.

My preferred style is to communicate the wonder of sentience and perception rather than to arrogantly pose a challenge.

I am not claiming one style is superior to another – just my preference.



I take it you are recommending sentience as a life choice?
Bill Palmer
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Whit:

Sometimes I believe it is a life choice.

Sometimes sapience is a life choice.

I believe there are people who go through life without experiencing either.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On 2010-06-18 16:04, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Some more for the list...

Gary Kurtz's Leading With Your Head.

Pretty much anything by John Ramsay.

John Carney's Carney on Ramsay.


*ding* *ding*

perfect suggestions.

if you get carney's book "carneycopia" and study "The Cylinder and Coins" throoughly you'll have a much better understanding.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-06-24 18:32, Whit Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-24 14:49, panlives wrote:

To be sentient in this life is a marvel.

My preferred style is to communicate the wonder of sentience and perception rather than to arrogantly pose a challenge.

I am not claiming one style is superior to another – just my preference.



I take it you are recommending sentience as a life choice?


...only when playing the 3 Shell Game opposite a master like you!
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-06-24 21:29, Bill Palmer wrote:
Whit:

Sometimes I believe it is a life choice.

Sometimes sapience is a life choice.

I believe there are people who go through life without experiencing either.


Hi Bill,
I love that word...would make for an excellent book on magic theory: "Sapient Sleights of Hand and Mind"
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2010-06-18 12:09, sethb wrote:
There is an excellent pamphlet on the basics of misdirection by the late Al Leech, called "Don't Look Now." For $8 it's a pretty good deal; click HERE for more information.

SETH

Yes I agree, there is gold in that pamphlet...get it while it lasts!

Cupsamagically,
Dom Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
Lawrence O
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I agree that there is gold in that pamphlet but it takes a fine digger to find it:

It's the first book in the history of magic where time displacement between the magical cause and the actual cause is really highlighted. Nowadays, apart from Darwin Ortiz magician erroneously confuse it with the close but more restricted concept of time misdirection

The other nugget in the book is the notion of negative misdirection: if the audience sees four coins (actually 3 and a shell) in the hand where 4 coins were just transferred, it means, by negative misdirection, that the original hand is empty. There are many effect that can be realized just based on this concept.

There are several other concepts which have however been developed also by other author

This is the book that Fred Robinson had me to learn by heart when, back in 1974, he accepted taking me as a pupil.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Bill Palmer
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He was a stern taskmaster. Smile

Now the concept of actually making a student READ a book is almost anathema!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
augiemagic
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As far as Psychological Misdirection, "Designing Miracles" by Darwin Ortiz is an excellent, excellent book.

And Slydini is always an excellent suggestion: The Flight of the Paper Balls is itself a good study of physical misdirection. I believe it was also the inspiration for the Crossing the Gaze and Double Crossing the Gaze techniques in "The Five Points in Magic" by Juan Tamariz.

Mr. Palmer - Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Kenton Knepper refer to it as Indirection as well? Or does he consider Indirection something entirely different from Misdirection?
funsway
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"Implication" is also often miscalled as "Inference," but both can play a part in Missdirection.

Opening you hand and saying, "Gone!" will casue a different audience reaction htna opening it and sayiong, "Empty!" So, proper use of these terms can be used for psychological misdirection in balancing Anticipation and Surprise.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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Bill Palmer
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Kenton also uses the term "indirection" instead of "misdirection." Some people feel this is important. Frankly, I think it's quibbling over whether you call your pet a tomcat or a mog, or whether you call the technique of psychological forcing "magicians choice" or "ee QUIV o kay."

If the premise is that magicians have been using the term "misdirection" for the bulk of two centuries, and that it's the wrong word, because it doesn't accurately describe the internal processes that magicians are supposed to be using or experiencing to produce the desired results, I don't believe that the premise is true. After all, 19th century magicians and 20th century magicians knew what misdirection is, and what it isn't.

Are we supposed to go back through all our books, scratch out the word "misdirection" and insert "indirection" in place of it? I don't think so.

I believe the term "indirection" was used by Tommy Wonder and picked up by Kenton Knepper to help wean magicians from the idea that misdirection was more an external thing than an internal one. Misdirection starts from the inside and works its way to the outside.

And whether you call it misdirection or indirection it is still basically the same thing.

Think back on this famous math problem. I'll provide the answer later:

If you have six horses and four cows, and you call all the cows horses, how many horses do you have?
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Woland
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Bill,

Interesting problem. I learned a similar one about Abraham Lincoln, his sons, and the family dog. I think your problem could be solved analogously.

And I think you are right on the money.

Woland
Bill Palmer
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The answer to the problem is this:

If you have six horses and four cows, and you call all the cows horses, you have ten horses.

Calling a cow a horse does not make it a horse.

Sometimes magical authors use new terminology to kick start a thought process. However, in the final analysis, if a person has a comprehensive knowledge of a subject, he may not need to have the thought process kick started.

Nevertheless, when Tommy Wonder or Kenton Knepper decide to make a statement, I listen.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Woland
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I would have said, you don't have 10 horses.

In the Lincoln story, it was to figure, if he called the dog's tail a leg, how many legs he would have. The boys thought 5, but it is of course only 4.

"Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it so."

That is a lesson that is quite generally applicable in many fields of endeavor.
augiemagic
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I always heard it "If you have one woman and one cow, and you call the woman a cow, what's the best way to protect yourself?"

Then again, I could be making it up.
panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-06-18 13:21, Bill Palmer wrote:
Good misdirection is often very "quiet." A famous 19th century magician wrote: "...where sleight-of-hand is involved, the quieter the movement of the performer, the more readily will the spectators be deceived."



Hi Bill,

That quote inspired my Café signature:

"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-06-18 13:21, Bill Palmer wrote:
Two of the most important parts of misdirection are simulation and dissimulation. The concepts are simple. Making them fit you may not be so simple.


Bill,

Can you help me to understand the finer definitions of simulation and dissimulation, as they relate to misdirection?

Is there a book that covers these topics by name?

with thanks,
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Bill Palmer
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There really aren't any finer points of simulation and dissimulation, but a classic example would be this. If you do a false transfer, the hand that is supposed to be holding the object needs to look like it is holding something -- it simulates holding the object. The hand that is supposed to be empty dissimulates, in order to appear to be empty. Attention is never called to this if it is done well

Some say that this starts at the shoulders. I think it starts in the head.

Fitzkee covers this very well in chapter V of Magic by Misdirection.

Some people belittle Fitzkee's knowledge of misdirection by performing an ad hominem attack, based upon his unsuccessful show. However, the material in this book is key to the whole subject.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Lawrence O
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Bill
What Dariel Fitzkee teaches is very valuable but his analysis of misdirection is somehow too analytic and doesn't cover properly processes.
Ascanio's In Transit actions or Slydini's "chest leading the hands" or John Ramsay's "blind spots" clearly demonstrated that a poor simulation/dissimulation is not noted in off beat moments.

Visual magic on the contrary, by superposing in time the secret move and the apparent magical cause, demonstrated the limit of simulation/dissimulation: people don't know what the magician did but they know that he did something or if the simulation/dissimulation was perfect, but done under such a superposition, it will generate admiration for the skill due to back tracking (and magic will be dead).

The time displacement between the real cause and the "magic one", is essential because it allows creating an off beat and a deep off beat forgives a weaker simulation/dissimulation (that I'm not advocating) because spectator don't even realize that we did something. In my example of the previous post: when the right hand passes the pen in the left hand TO BE ABLE TO take the deck out from the pocket, lay people and magicians alike don't notice in what direction the cap is pointing in the left hand: if this was only a simulation, it wouldn't matter if it was only done half way decently (to use Larry Jennings interesting quote).
The Ramsay rules cover it better than simulation/dissimulation: "if you want them to look at something, look at it yourself, if you want them to look at you, look at them" (in short in Max Malini's words: it's the eye)

Looking in the proper direction as the right hand gets into the right pocket to get the deck out covers more safely the passing in the left hand than a perfect simulation/dissimulation.

Augie Magic therefore considers that paper balls over the head is the source of crossing the gaze when you and I know that crossing the gaze is just a direct application of In Transit Actions with Ramsay gaze management reinforcement.

Thus Indirection which Kenton doesn't assimilate with misdirection but rather with directed suggestion is an interesting nuance rather than just a semantic battle over the word "misdirection"

So why do I dare, dear Bill, to disagree with you for once? Because we both fight the tendency of a large number of younger magicians to confuse the "method" or the "sleight" (which for them is only simulation/dissimulation) with the magic generated by proper misdirection which includes indirection/suggestion, In Transit Actions, the eye, the chest and breathing management of the hands and (yes) a pristine simulation/dissimulation.

I could go at length on this topic but I don't want to omit to state that the best misdirection is showmanship and entertainment: this means that once the sleight (simulation/dissimulation) can be achieved perfectly, there is a considerable amount of work to do in terms of misdirection (entertainment requires a good script which forms part of misdirection as well) ... for simulation/dissimulation to become magic.

Bill I know that I'm not uncovering anything that you wouldn't know even better than me but I really don't want magicians to have a rationalization for confusing the "method" with misdirection and magic. Please consider the intent to forgive to the contradiction.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
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