Hi,
I know a lot of people posting on these boards are into advanced mentalism, but I figure many of you must have at least started out with a mental epic board. I like them. I still think they are a solid effect and I'd like to get one but I am wondering whether I should pay big buck and get one of the no force ones, or simply get a one of the 40 dollar ones that require a force.

I know how the force one works but really do not know how the no force epic boards work and therefore can't really justify whether its worth while to spend all taht money. ANy help would be greatly appreciated.

Incredibrent,

I use Osterlind's Ultra Board. Its a no force board and does the job well. People can pick up the board after the performance and find nothing. Its that clean. Now, it is suggested that you go south with the clips as you make the reveals, but I don't find that to be necessary at all.

It's $225.00 from Richard himself.

http://osterlindstore.com/catalog/produc......ts_id/40

It will take some practice, but anything worthwhile will. I get very good reactions with it.

Understand that I use this mostly as a backup to Carlyle's headline prediction. But when I do use it, it works great. I also use it for times when I only have a five minute spot.

I second Tony here.
Of course it takes some practise, but you have a killer effect here, and it will last a life time.

You can do it for 3 or two sspectators, and even one to one!

Be also aware of that it is priced lower than the other Epic Boards.

Sven

I have used Richard's Ultra Board, but for no-force handling ease, prefer Joe Lefler's Supreme Slate Of Mind.

Having said that, as is often the case, there is no 'best,' only personal preference.

But to answer your original question, the benefit of a no-force board VS a lower priced traditional board really depends on your routine and the process and rationale for acquiring the force element. I like the versatility of the no-force option, as you can go with 3 completely free choices.

Now, to offer what may seem like a completely contradictory option, I also love a no-prop routine, specifically Richard Osterlind's beautiful handling using nothing but regular index cards.

For almost twenty years I thought about mental epic. I saw a show where one was used when I was in high school and I thought then that maybe it was real mind reading. Even after I started studying mentalism that effect stuck with me and I found an exact board like the guy used when I was a kid and bought it.
I love the effect but I'm not sure where to put it in. Maybe I should just out it in. I don't know what the manufacturer is but it's a yellow board with the green numbered covers on hinges. It was out of the box so I got it for $30 and even though it was cheap and talks a little it is very special to me. I may get another one and age it.

I've never done Mental Epic. I have a problem with the effect. What is the rationale for the board? I mean in laymen's terms. A fair number of (audience pleasing) effects, ironically are more elaborate than they have to be. That's why I like Outlaw book tests. The don't feel, look or perform as book tests.

Do you see what I'm driving at? How do you (if you bother to do so) explain why you're using that funky three part board? Do you have a backstory for it? Did Rhine use it in his research (according to your story)? Or am I guilty of overthinking the whole thing? Am I running when nobody is chasing me?

I'm very interested in the thoughts and experiences of people who successfully use this old chestnut. And does anyone see a parallel with Astor Mental? Maybe I'm reaching on this one.

The floor is open.

I bought my no-force mental epic board called the Broadcast Slate from Nelson Enterprises back in 1970. At the time there was no one around to inform me that a real mentalist would never use such a prop, so I just went out and did it. I can tell you that it killed every time. In the third element of the effect I told a guy how much change he had in his pocket. It blew people away. I haven't used the board in years, but that isn't because I believe the bad rap it gets here. I think it would kill today. In fact, this thread has reminded me about that old chestnut and I think I'm going to start using it. Let's create a new category for it called Retro Mentalism. That should make all the purists feel better.

Richard also marketed an improved version of the "Ultra Board" called the "Epitome Board" which elminated the need for the few gimmicked items used with the "Ultra Board." Like the "Ultra" the "Epitome" is a "no-force" board with the added advantage that no gimmicks of any kind are involved. Only three spring clips, three 3" x 5" pieces of white plastic and a piece of chalk, all of which can be freely examined are used; however, like the "Ultra" board it does require some practice to master smooth handling. Unfortunatly, I don't recall the cost and it is not listed on Richard's web site; however, I doubt that would have been any more than the "Ultra Board" -- and probably less as no gimmicks of any kind are required, as it is ALL in the handling.

Dick,

The Epitome Board is no longer in production. Richard may consider producing it again, but that's not written in stone.

Rocketeer,
I use the blackboard throughout my entire act, even when I don't do the Ultra Board routine, so if I were to do the Ultra Board routine, the board is consistent with what I do all evening. I use the board as others use a white board or a large pad.

Tony,

I assumed as much when I saw that it was no longer mentioned on his web site. BTW, "Epitome" uses that same board as "Ultra Board" but different (standard ungimmicked clips) and plastic instead of index card "covers." The handling is both is similar but not exactly the same.

Agreed that if a clipboard, whiteboard, slate or blackboard is used for one effect then for the sake of consistency it should be used throughout whenever something must be written.

I have a Mikame Craft "Prediction Board", (aka: Mental Epic) also a "no force" board and can be examined. It is a bit more elegant than some of the others which could be a turn-off for some performers. I have used it, however, many many times and it "stuns". The Osterland board doesn't look so much like a "prop" and is probably better suited for a mentalist performance.

No question that if you are using a 'normal' board at some point in your set, and then bring out a mental epic board, even the blind mice in the venue will smell something rotten (and not in Denmark)!

But I have used my Supreme Slate Of Mind in a Mentalism set (where it is the only large writing surface being used), and simply introduced it as "a dry erase board that I've separated into 6 sections for this next experiment..."

The grand-daddy of them all was U.F. Grant's ungimmicked Citation board, which Hen Fetsch "improved" with a gimmick, and so on to the present day, as documented in my e-Book on "Whiteboard Citation for Mentalists" in my Mini-Mysteries Section, Book 2. The original ungimmicked Citation was just a chalkboard divided into six circles - three on top and three on bottom. You could easily perform the effect on a regular chalkboard or whiteboard and draw on the circles or straight line partitions yourself before beginning the effect. This does away with all of the objections articulated above. Use it as a regular board before and/or after using it for the "Citation" or "Epic" predictions. The e-Book also gives several methods for making the forced selection seem completely unforced.

Wow it seems like there is a lot of different options about these boards out there, and a lot of controversy surrounding what to use and what not to use. I really still don't understand how the no force board works. I believe I fully understand how the force boards work. Are the no force boards difficult to use?

I also looked into an effect that is the same but uses three small envelopes and 3 whine glasses. It seems promising and gets rid of the odd board so I may look into that more. But at the same time I really don't think using a board is all that strange if you are doing a stage show. Even if it is a little funny looking.

I have used many types and prefer different ones for different reasons and uses. My current show requires I use Osterlind's since it is easy for the audience to inspect and find, or suspect nothing.

The others, including the no gimick pre-divided style look like a gimmicked trick -- after all how many normal people do you know with boards divided into little square slots with something like a flap to cover one set of squares?

But, in a "magic" setting people expect wierd things -- and minimal cover stories. Sign in board in the office? Or a more garish clown sight9ing board?

I also like Richard Osterlind's epic pad -- looks common and familiar with an astonising effect.

Some years ago on a cruise to ports of Scandanavia, myi and sometimes assistant at the time entered the "talent show" for passenfers with a one head type trick very similar in nature -- and for the rest of the ten days aboard -- was daily accosted by fellow passengers asking if she really read minds -- or coult tell their futures.

So consider the venue AND which version you use -- you probably will need at least two.

You are assuming that there is only one no-force epic board, when actually there are several, each with a different solution and each with a different degree of difficulty involved.

Generally speaking, the high priced boards are mechanical in nature and do all the work for you, whereas the lower priced boards are less or non-mechanical and reguire more work FROM you regarding handling and presentation.

The nice thing about Osterlind's "Epitome Board" as opposed to his "Ultra Board" (the only two "no force" boards that I am personally familiar with), is that it involves no actual "gimmicks" at all -- neither the board, clips or even the "covers" are "special." In fact, the effect could be performed with ANY slate, white board, dry-erase board, etc. in lieu of the "board" provided as the "secret" is in the method/handling instead of the props provided. Which may explain why it is no longer being marketed. Rather than re-issue it, Richard might want to consider selling just the instructions at a reduced price.

Chech out "Special Bulletin" by David Regal in his wonderful book "Approaching Magic". Mental Epic without the look or feel of a magic prop.

Hi,
I have created a mental prediction board.in my opinion it is the best one.Not only it requires no force but it also allows the magician firstly to write all 3 predictions and then write all 3 spectator's answers.this can be done with different colors on predictions and answers.finally , the board uses paper than can be removed and given to the spectator after the trick in order to prove than only one paper is used.
you can show it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pODK9Lmx5h8
please press button "cc" to change subtitles from greek to english.
it will go for 250-300.please tell me if you would buy it.
if not how much money you would give for it?

thanks

p.s. the final model will be wooden

To me it depends on your act and who you perform for. As for me, no one touches my props before or after the show, and I perform strictly for lay audiences. Therefore, I use the $40 Mak Magic board, and it works just fine. The force does not bother me as lay people do not know they are being forced (actually I don't force anything. I use a M***** D***). Since one of the thoughts is a playing card, I keep all choices limited to about 50 items i.e. 50 states, any number from 1-50 or 50-100, 52 cards, etc.