Hi All,
Does anyone have a set (or sets)?
Is this something you perform?
I pulled out a brass set last night and someone exclaimed, "Oh...the shell game!" before I could start my patter about Elephant Bells and Hindu Magic...

Pete Biro is an expert at the Hindu cups: check his site.
Now about your post, since the first thing we have to do is to catch an audience interest, you passed that test brilliantly. You only then need to not be shy away, expressing that you will share something much more precious or interesting that a street con game: ancient secrets Hindu magic and elephant bells...

Hi Lawrence,
I did recover and managed to alter the mood in the room; set the mental stage for the presentation of an ancient anomaly from the Far East...not as smoothly as I would have liked but in the end it worked out.
Thank you - as always, a post from you may be lengthy or brief but it is always a dose of wisdom!

See my website http://www.petebiro.com and go to "blog" for pictures of cups

That's not a surprising reaction. The shell game and the cups and balls are siblings.

Ron Wahl, who is an expert on the shell game, once told me that we magicians like to think that our precious magic tricks are somehow "above" their origins. But when we get down to it, the cups and balls is still very closely related to the shell game, and card tricks still are related to gambling scams.

It may be that the consequences for making a mistake in either one are somewhat less than they would be in their progenitors.

I may have to update my blog pictures and add some more Indian cups photos, but am too busy right now, maybe middle of next week. I do have a set of mint early Tayade's for sale and several of those "decorated" Indian cups. On the blog go to bottom of page and clik on older posts to scroll down.

I do have a small collection of Indian cups and I must say that the best set... size wise, and feel... the best would be the one I got from you Pete!

Hi Bill,
Yes, another potent observation, I realize my comment here is perhaps better situated in the gambling section, but there is indeed a kinetic association between the Cups & Balls, the Three Shell Game and even the Three Card Monte.

This was one of the central conceits in the screenplay of Ricky Jay's "52 Assistants" show.

In the sequence immediately following Mr. Jay’s recitation of the Francois Villon poem, he says, “I spent most of my formative years learning the techniques of deception. Now many years later, I can tell you that I believe there are more differences between the cheater and the sleight of hand artist than there are similarities. Take for example an evening like this. If I perform badly, I might suffer the disapprobation of the audience or an empty house. If I performed equally poorly at the card table, I could suffer loss of limb or even life. Notwithstanding, I would like to demonstrate ‘art, ruse and subterfuge at the card table…’” – the conceit here is he then proceeds to demonstrate second, bottom and center deals and runs through a pulse-pounding gambling routine, thereby slyly annihilating his own claim that there are more differences than similarities between the magician and the hustling card sharp.

The audience is left wondering if this is indeed so…

Many Cups & Balls routines have risen above mere challenge-based show-downs but at its core, “find the ball” as a game of chance is without doubt part of the early, primeval genetic code of the effect.

I think your premise is well stated – which is why card gambling routines continue to be a popular motif within the larger genre.

What amazes me, time and again, is how many great performers have transformed the Cups & Balls into set pieces that are equal parts trickery, magic, art and wonder; fuelled by years of practice and the study of transcendental psychological misdirection…

This is very true.

One of the most interesting comments I have ever heard about the connection between cheating and magic was one that Irv Weiner made to me in the early 1970's.

I asked him why he took up magic. He said, "I was playing poker in a high stakes card game and got caught holding out an ace. You have no idea how large the hole in the end of a barrel of a .357 magnum looks until you have one pointed directly at the bridge of your nose. That was my last card game."

Ouch!
I'll take the disapprobation of an audience and playing to an empty house...

Sometimes when I read some of the comments Tony Giorgio made in his column in Genii Magazine, I understand what he is referring to. Quite frequently, Tony poo-poohed some of the better card men when they spoke about getting into big money gambling games. He would tell them that they didn't have the stones for it, because you needed icewater in your veins and a set of morals that would allow you to cheat your grandmother.

Not many magicians are like that.

Which is not a bad thing . . . .

Posted: Jun 25, 2010 7:28pm
Similar comments about the difference between performing magic effects and actually doing the work of expert card play were made to Gazzo by Walter Irving Scott, as recorded in the book Gazzo co-authored with David Britland, "Phantoms of the Card Table."

Woland

I wonder how many hard-boiled gamblers as described in “Phantoms of the Card Table” could perform an hour-long show under the hot lights, entertaining a crowd?

The mystique of the lone gambler is not dissimilar to a Hollywood Western movie – caricatures and confabulated romantic idols abound.

Many (if not most) card cheats work with confederates, not unlike a Monte Mob.

The lone gunman and the lone card mechanic are equal parts whimsical nostalgia and self-aggrandizement.

All of this brings to mind a rather unique bullet-catch routine wherein the card cheat detects the “inept” magician; the hapless magician is rustled up by the cheating mob, tied to a post and prepped for retribution – only to come out the winner by catching the bullet in his teeth…there was a rumor some years back that the screenplay for “Carter Beats the Devil” would feature such a scene…

For the cheat, the challenge is somewhat different. The gambler must play cards for sometimes several hours at a time. He must not call attention to his skill. He must not have any apparent "tells." If he is smart, he will work with a partner who will be the winner.

Working for an hour under the hot lights five or six days a week is not very difficult. By the time you have done it for a month or so, your act will be smooth, and you won't have to worry about what happens next.

By the time you have done it for five years, it becomes extremely smooth, like breathing. Watch MacKing sometime.

Hi Bill,
I see what you mean.
I did see both Max Maven and Mac King live this month and both had to handle some very unpredictable on-stage participants.
I would love to report that I saw either of them sweat a bit when trying to manage erratic audiences, but the truth is they were cool, calm, funny and utterly entertaining throughout.
Still can't find the Elephant Bell Indian Cups, by the way...

I'm sorry to admit that as long as I have known Mac King, I have only seen his complete show once. The next time I'm in Vegas, I'll see it again. Mac is Aces in my book.

Both Max and Mac are absolutely consummate performers. I learned from Max exactly how important a script is. Many performers don't understand this. Eventually, they find themselves performing with a script, but they never write it down. If you write your script, you have the opportunity to take out the parts that are unnecessary, add material that IS necessary and place the parts of the routine into the correct order for maximum impact.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again. I really finally understood why a script is important when I played Baptista Minola in a production of Taming of the Shrew. It was my first time to play a long role in a scripted production. At first, the sheer learning of the lines was intimidating. But I did it. Then, as the blocking and lines became part of "my" Baptista, I realized how the interaction with the other characters, the bits of stage business and everything else centered around The Script.

The biggest advantage comes when you don't perform regularly, but perform on occasion. You can, as Gene Anderson suggests, listen to a recording of your act, and getting the script back into your head will trigger the other things that go along with it.

Sorry about the diversion.

You will probably have to make the elephant bell cups yourself.

If there is a shop in your area that sells Indian merchandise, that's a good place to start. Sometimes you can go into one of these shops and ask if they know anyone who sells or makes these bells.

Sarna was the big manufacturer in the 1960's through 1990's, but he is gone and so, apparently, is his company.

Ebay usually has lots of elephant bells for sale.

Bill,

Knowing the part you played, I shall now call you "Young Paduan" (padawan??).

I only typed that before Jonathan Townsend made the leap from Shakespeare to Lucas.

KG

The trick is finding three that are the same size and shape.

Posted: Jun 30, 2010 10:24pm
Close enough!

Bill : yes, when they're sold as a set (usually of three or four), the sizes are all different, with anywhere between 0.25" and 0.5" differences in diameter.