As a magic consumer, I'm really interested in an answer here. When an item is advertised as "exclusive" by a dealer, what does that mean? Oh, I know what it SHOULD mean in the English language. But what does it mean in magic industry terms?

Case in point: two stores with great reputations and great service... seriously. (I state that because I REALLY do like these shops). And one great inventor, manufacturer, magician...(seriously...I have a shelf devoted to him). Check out Stevens Magic and Hocus Pocus, both of whom advertise Dave Powell's Astro Cabinet as exclusives.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop
and
http://www.stevensmagic.com/index.php?ma......d=111832

If these links work, you can see the products are identical, so, uh, where is the exclusivity? Are Hocus Pocus and Stevens to blame for being conveniently naive to each others' claims? Or, were they duped by Mr. Powell? My hunch is neither is the case, and that all parties are interested in running a business and using whatever advertising tools necessary to do the job. Okay. All is fair in love and war, and magic. The problem is...this is a very small market. We talk to each other. We go to the same web sites. We're reasonably intelligent. Please. Show us some respect.

This is NOT finger pointing at these 3 parties. They are all reputable creators and sellers. This issue is prevalent amongst MANY on-line dealers and manufacturers. Sure, one can say their version uses birch wood while the other uses cherry...c'mon. We'll catch on eventually.

"Exclusive" should mean "exclusive" right? Am I alone on this one? Or should I say, exclusive?

P.S. For the record, I own this effect and purchased it used from an indifferent third party. It's an awesome rendition of a classic. And, I love Stevens and Hocus Pocus. I just want to know what I'm getting into when I shell out serious buckage.

Don't see where Stevens advertises it as "exclusive." Did they change the listing?

This seems to be not too uncommon, BTW, so shop around, and take all advertising claims with a grain or two of salt.

It does appear that Stevens changed the listing. Maybe they did have it first for a limited time, so it was exclusive. Then Powell expanded his distribution?

The Astro Cabinet has a nice effect - but what's with the talking? Is that rattling sound the sound of the ball arriving in the glass? If so, I guess you'd better explain that - sure, it doesn't explain how the trick works, but it's a nuisance unless you can explain it away.
Very nice effect though.

If you're referencing the Steven's demo, the sound you are referring to must be movement off camera, as the actual effect is very smooth and quiet.

Exclusives are only for 60 days.
After that anyone can sell them.
It's just often people forget to change their websites.

Randi

Thanks Randi. I didn't know this.

That's not necessarily true. There is no statutory limitation on exclusives. For example, Harold Voit has had a long-standing exclusive arrangement with Stevens. So has Ace Place magic.

Sometimes an "exclusive" should be called a "limited availability agreement."

Whether "anyone" can sell something depends on the agreement between the manufacturer, the creator of the material and the distributors.

Sheherazade was sold with a one year limited availability agreement through Stevens, Hocus Pocus, H&R and Viking.

Final Curtain had a six month agreement.

After that, I sold as much of the remaining stock to Murphy's as I could. Once Murphy's has it, then all bets are off.

Well... I didn't mean it was written down in the law books.

I was just saying that the standard exclusive that retailers ask for is 60 days.

I am sure that there are many instances where exclusives were longer.

Randi

Thanks for your insights Bill and Randi. I guess we can agree that "exclusive" can be somewhat open to interpretation in the magic world. Okay. I can deal. My objection is language that is not open to interpretation, like "Remember, this is a Hocus Pocus Exclusive, which means you'll only find it here, and nowhere else."

Uh. I don't think so. I would imagine that Stevens would agree.

Oh but wait...news flash. Upon closer study the Stevens model has a red ball, and Hocus Pocus's has a sparkly yellow ball. Now I get it. It's all about the sparkles...

Randi, I've been dealing with exclusives through magic dealers for close to 30 years. How many dealers have you struck "exclusive" deals with?

One of the things that most independent magic producers are unaware of are the various dealer groups around the US and around the world. I've been involved in a couple of "international exclusives" without having been informed that I had an "exclusive" deal. There are dealers in Germany and England who will do that.

Oz, I have PM'ed you about the situation.

Joe Stevens carries a few items which I make exclusively for him. Currently, he has the Card Star, the Okito 3 Screen Production, and just released, Okito Confetti to Silks. These are also in limited runs. He has carried other exclusive, limited run items, which I believe have all been sold out, as he no longer lists them.

If someone wants one of these items, they must go to him. I do not even sell the identical items myself, although I have often previously made and sold different designs of the same item, prior to making a deal with Joe. Sometimes that is how he finds out about it... seeing one that I've made for someone else.

As long as he has one of my items in stock and available, I will not compete with that by making "another", even if asked by someone as a custom piece.

Raleigh Vintage Magic is selling a limited run of presentation cases for sets of Chinese Linking Rings that I made for him. You will not find these available through any other dealer, and you will not find them available on my website.

I believe this honors and respects not only the dealers that I do business with, and whose business I am grateful for, but also the magicians who have honored us by purchasing these items. I will add that I often make an extra one in a run for my own collection, and prototypes sometimes exist too, but are not part of a numbered run. So if you find anything that I have made through any dealer that I do not do business with, it is likely an after-market sale. I have seen some of my items sold this way. That's not a bad thing, but I could see where such an occurrence could create confusion.

I can imagine, considering the thousands of items the major dealers carry, that mistakes can occur in which one dealer or another misunderstood how an item may have been released. The cause of such a misunderstanding should not necessarily be singled out with anger, as it may have not been intentionally misleading. With such a huge volume of inventory, a minor glitch like this could occur without them even noticing it, unless someone chose to point it out.

I would imagine, considering the reputation of such dealers, that they would not hesitate to correct any misinformation in their ads. Reputable dealers did not get that way through any means other than honest business dealings. I see no reason to bring such a topic to the boards before contacting them first.

Thanks for your thoughtful feedback Michael. It means a lot considering your great reputation as a craftsman and seller.

I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence though. One could argue that a forum is EXACTLY the place to discuss these topics. Most dealers visit the Café, so this issue can be seen and noted by many at one time. As I clearly stated in my opening post, Stevens and Hocus-Pocus are reputable dealers - and Powell a reputable creator - whom I either buy from or visit often. They've probably have done nothing wrong, either intentionally, or unintentionally. I was simply seeking help and input from Café members on an issue we, as magic customers are faced with from many sources.

In hindsight, I should have kept the example generic rather than siting the parties involved in my example. I thought it would add clarity. My intent was certainly not to denigrate any source.

Best.

Wizard of Oz,

I do understand that you were not deliberately bashing any of the parties involved. I hope you did not perceive my post as an attack, as it was not intended to be. I was merely adding my thoughts in describing how the term "exclusive" relates to the business ventures between myself and the dealers I work with. I went on to define what I thought may be possible causes for this concern, and how I felt it best handled.

My reason for my last sentence is that even if all dealers see this topic, it still requires them to evaluate all potential ad copy for their HUGE inventory, in a quest to find possible mistakes. I'm sure they do their best when the ads are written and submitted to the website or the printer.

It must also be known that sometimes the dealers rely on the builders/creators to generate the ad copy themselves, which may for the most part be inserted by a copy/paste operation. The builders are usually in a better position to describe the details of the effect and the apparatus.

With thousands of items and scores of new ones every few weeks, it would be too large a task for every one dealer to write all the ad copy themselves, at least with complete accuracy. My proposal was simple... if such a glitch is noticed, take it directly to the source, where my bet is it will be corrected or explained quickly. I see that as a better option to raising questions among people who may only be in positions to rumor mill information (not you, but others who would read this).

~michael

In an earlier post in this thread, I stated:


Just to clarify this: Murphy's has a number of items that are made exclusively for them. I am sure that the people who make these items and sell them through Murphy's are quite satisfied with the way Murphy's deals with them. I certainly am.

All I meant by "all bets are off," is that once an item is sold through jobbers or wholesalers, then it will be available to a larger group of dealers, and is no longer an "exclusive" in the sense that only one dealer handles it.

I hope this clears up any confusion my statement may have caused.

Murphy's has always handled my material in an ethical and professional manner.

Another thing to add...Dave Powell sells most of his items directly. So how does that fit into the "exclsuive" distribution through certain dealers? I have the Powell Astro Ball Cabinet (which is gorgeous!) as well as the Spirit Box/Card Fountain. Powell's craftsmanship is excellent, but it sounds like there are some kinks in the distribution channels.

Hocus-Pocus has 3 of my effects Exclusive for 90 days. That means I will not sell to other shops until agreement expires. I can however sell direct to individuals. Best of both worlds.........Hocus gets to release items for first sales and creator gets benefit of huge advertising base. Working with honest people you like and respect helps. A win/win for all involved.