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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Video of me doing Elmsley count, I need suggestions (I know it's not good) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

minusthebear
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Okay, well I'm new to magic, and I obviously want to fool laypeople, and I think it's decent enough to fool someone untrained in magic, but my uncle has practiced some magic, so I want to better my act. At any rate, I'm really struggling with the Elmsley count and so I made a video to get some suggestions from others who are better than myself. Thanks.

http://vimeo.com/13083710

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Doctor REvil
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How many cards are you supposed to be counting? The video says 5(?) ... it's 4 for an Elmsley count.

If I could give you one tip, count the cards clearly from one hand to the other, 1-2-3-4, then transfer them all back. This combined with a smooth action on the second card will add to the deceptive look you're after.

David.
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writeall
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I didn't think it was that bad, but Dr. REvil is right. And the pace seemed fast to me, but it all depends on whether you are doing a quick Elmsley in between other things (like a turnover display) or a 'fair' Elmsley where you want to go slower. I also like a little action on the last card, like a flick. If you are counting aloud, it goes, "One, Two, Three, [flick] ...and Four."
minusthebear
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The trick I am learning it for is a 5 card elmsley but with a 4 card count only showing 3 cards of the 5 cards. It's not supposed to be a count, it's part of a trick in which I'll be explaining the story while just sort of brushing through the cards.
WilburrUK
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I'd agree with the good doctor, start with the cards in the hand you're NOT taking them into. Also, I think your actions are a bit over emphasised - Ie your left hand is moving too far away as you take each card.

Finally, your separation of the 1st card (where you jog if forwards with the thumb before taking it) could do with being smaller - it's odd that this is one of the trickier things about doing the EC well - especially when you're starting in the opposite hand - and its just as hard if the count is "honest", but it's necessary to make it look as if this is a natural way to count cards.

Other than that, it's just a case of practice practice practice. Personally, I'd start with 4 cards, and only move on to more when you're happy with your 4 card Elmsley.
writeall
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I think we've all heard this piece of advice -- "See what it looks like when you aren't doing the sleight, but just doing the normal action. Make the sleight look like that."

I need to remind myself this all the time.
dobber
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Quote:
On 2010-07-05 12:26, minusthebear wrote:
The trick I am learning it for is a 5 card elmsley but with a 4 card count only showing 3 cards of the 5 cards. It's not supposed to be a count, it's part of a trick in which I'll be explaining the story while just sort of brushing through the cards.

You're showing "four" cards, not three...right?
A 5 card EC is the same as a 4 card EC except for the number of cards pushed off in step two.
minusthebear
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It's an off handed elmsley count which I'll be distracting them with patter. As I count them (but not out loud) giving the impression that I've showed 4 cards when I've really shown only 3, however, the total amount of cards I'm carrying is 5. I hope that makes sense haha.
the fritz
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Distracting the audience with patter as you say, will go a long way toward increasing the deceptiveness of your count. David Regal is a master at doing this kind of thing, so if you have any of his stuff, do yourself a favor and watch it.

As for the technical part, strive for smoothness. An even, unbroken tempo is most important, I think. I don't do EC's with any more than three cards because I don't like the feel of it, despite the fact that I've practiced it for years with more than three cards. If you are looking for an example of someone who is very smooth with an EC, then look no further than Aldo Colombini... very nice technique.
Jaz
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You're concealing what you're supposed to but you need to get it smoother.
I agree with the fritz that, "An even, unbroken tempo is most important".
Keep at it.
Doctor REvil
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Quote:
On 2010-07-08 17:03, Jaz wrote:
You're concealing what you're supposed to but you need to get it smoother.
I agree with the fritz that, "An even, unbroken tempo is most important".
Keep at it.


It depends on the context of the effect though, Marlo used a brilliant ruse in his handling called the Broken Elmsley, this goes a long way to conceal the discrepentcy inherent within this sleight. Combined with the right patter and (mis)direction and you have a deadly weapon at hand.

What I am unsure of, is are you trying to count 4 as 4, 5 as 4 or 5 as 5?.......
Karma means you buy now & pay later.....think I've over spent....!

Check out my ebooks at the lybrary.....

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Failed Magician
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Fritz and dobber gave some very good points. I've done this as they mentioned. First, you need the patter to distract their attention from your fingers and it also give me more confidence in doing the counting.

The phase shouldn't be too fast or they will suspect that you are doing something fishy. Act casually helps a lot. I talk about things related to the trick or story. Or sometimes I ask them, "Do you know that sometimes people think magician relies on long sleeves shirt? But I'll prove it to you that magic doesn't deal with that. Most of the times, magical things happen in front of your eyes and you won't even realize it." Then start the move number/step 2.

I know it sounds cheesy but it works great because then they will look at your arms not hands/fingers (maybe it's a psychological reflex, I dunno). Even they will look at you in the eyes and have a chuckle.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
DomKabala
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Relax the "death grip" you have on the cards...hold them gently as if you were holding a small bird to keep it from flying away without injuring it.

You'll find the actions will become smoother in time. Practice, practice & rest...then practice somemore.

Cardamagically,
DOM Smile Smile
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Bobbert
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Though I agree that a natural smooth count is good, the thing I see most wrong with it is the first card... or is it just me?

I don't think you should outjog it so much, slide the top card back with your thumb as the other hand comes to take the packet
Bobbert
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Here, just a reference... but mine isn't so good as well ahaha

http://vimeo.com/13251740
writeall
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Bobbert, what's the password to watch that?
Bobbert
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Oops,

Password: Luminaire
writeall
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Looks good to me and you even filmed it at a 'hard' angle!
WilburrUK
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Yes, it looks pretty good, but as Alex Himself wrote when describing the starting position..
Quote:
Hold the face-down packet by its left edge, near center, pinched
between the left thumb, above, and fingertips, below
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2010-07-04 21:41, minusthebear wrote:
Okay, well I'm new to magic, and I obviously want to fool laypeople, and I think it's decent enough to fool someone untrained in magic, but my uncle has practiced some magic, so I want to better my act. At any rate, I'm really struggling with the Elmsley count and so I made a video to get some suggestions from others who are better than myself. Thanks.

http://vimeo.com/13083710
Password is "magic".


Hi minusthebear (cool nick lol)

Not bad. You do, as someone has already noted, have to handle the cards more gently. Also, the placing of the final card is inconsistent with the rest of the count. The placing of that last card also looks too "cozy." If you are doing a "take", strive for consistency all the way through. Relax your arms too Smile But, as I said, not bad at all.

I do Elmselys and Jordans using Gary Ouellet's "Paradise Grip" found in his excellent book Close Up Illusions. My reasoning is that other counts such as the Hamman are done from Biddle. It makes little sense to me to change hand positions. There are a few routines I have done that require a Hamman and an Elmsely. I want the counts to look consistent even though they accomplish two different things.

Finally, I find the take and steal in Ouellet's technique more efficient. Not that anyone cares, but, I started down the road to this by way of Paul Harris' Las Vegas Leaper. I didn't like the way the count was done, so I did and do it from Biddle. In experimenting, I came across the Biddle for the Elmsely and the Jordan. So, I was silly enough to think I had hit on something until I read Ouellet's technique, which really refined what I was doing. I think that the Jordan is actually MORE deceptive with Ouellet's technique, but, that is just my opinion. Thank God at least that the old fingertip technique of the Elmsely is vanishing.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
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