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amadeus_bg New user 6 Posts |
Hi there guys,
I don't really know how to start that post but magic has been part of my life since I was 5-6 years old. Of course, back then I wasn't nearly an ellusionist (neither I am now) but I was so keen on magic. The first trick I learn was a simple with some kind of Svengali deck for example:) For me magic is something that makes others believe that the impossible is possible and gives them a part of happiness in nowadays hurried life. So here is my main dilemma, I started actively learning magic, basicly card sleights for now. I am going to perform for friends, not going to head up to the stage or something, just going to have fun with friends and maybe other people I meet. The problem is I don't really know how to build up my routine. I can say that I'm very interested in fire magic and manipulation with items (as well as levitation of items). So could you please tell me: 1: What fire gimmicks to look for ( I mean those who produce a flash or something, so you could use it to produce a rose for example - I know it is used flash paper and cotton but I saw some kind of guns & stuff at magic shops), also I was looking at some fire wallets (as well wallets that produce burning business cards) and possibly if you know any great fire magic trick or gimmick please advice me what to look for:) 2: Also could you tell me please what decks are best for card magic - currently I am practicing with some regular bicycles, but I am looking to buy some more, as well as some designed ones like Ghost/Black Ghost, Arcane and shadow masters, Tally ho(s). What's your expirience with them and which of them handles good (possibly for card magic ?Smile I know that maybe other decks are good for manipulation? . I was thinking of buying 3 decks from all of them but I really have limited budget, which I know is a problem and that's why I was thinking of buying 10 or 12 decks of one kind and I hoped they will be enough for about an year at least ?Smile I stopped at ghost decks, especially on the black one, because it looks mistique, and as well as white ghosts + the gost gaff (by the way which gaff deck you think is best?Smile also what black deck. (I am ready to spend about maybe 500 $ for all my stuff, and I know what in the world of magic it is nothing, but that's all I can give, even gave up of buying a car:). Good part is that those 500$ are only for gimmicks and props, I already buyed some DVDs that gona touch me some moves I hope. 3: Could you please suggest me some really cool and stunning card tricks (close up ones) that have a great effect on audience (may be gimmicked ones or not, I am currently looking at the distortion DVD & Gimmick but I've read that it was really fragile and one must handle it with a lot of care). 4: About Levitating objects I was wondering what IT is best (by the way as far as I know you can make loops with thread right?), I've stopped currently on the Invisible Elastic Thread by Yigal Mesika. Is there any better? I know that you can make thread with Woolly nylon thread, but it's not elastic right?Smile . Also here comes the big question - do I need a gimmick like the tarantula, how do you think? I heard that It must be handled with care too , but still you can make a great effects (is it worth buying it or I can just stick up to regulard using with IT). Maybe buy some dispenser?. It may be stupid question but I don't really know what is the difference between loops and IT (just guessing but can I make loops by using million dollar knot or I missunderstood something:). Also what else will I need for levitation objects (wax?, and if you could tell me what kind of wax - is mesika good?Smile, and maybe some other stuff?Smile 5:I looked at the Card Fan to Card top hat item and I liked it a lot. Thing is that even on the photo in the magic shops I could see that the fan is part of the hat and I pressume it is visible from a close distance. Can it be used for a close up magic or it is made for stage magic mainly?Smile Also could you advice me on what else to look for, mainly for close up acts at parties or going out with friends:) If you have in mind any other mind blowing trick or gimmick I will be happy to tell me about it:) ( not the reveal of course but that to look for:) For me magic is not a way to entertain and make people think that the impossible is possible, it makes me believe that impossible is really possible. Even when I know how stuff work and they are only illusions, I want to believe that there is more. Maybe that's ellusionists greatest curse - they make people happy but actually it is kind of sad because the magic for them is kind of gone. I wrote a lot of stuff in this post and I am sorry but I had so much questions:) Hope to hear from you soon. I will be happy if you guide me to some good online stores, so far I use ellusionists, theory11 but they are US ones, thing is I am going to use a friend of mine to bring me some stuff from the USA, but the others I must buy at european shop probably, so do you know any good European store?, or possibly some other good USA one:) Best Wishes |
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escherwolf Regular user 126 Posts |
Hello Amadeus_bg, Welcome to the Café.
This is a lot of quetions for one post, and you'd probably get more responses if you made posts with specific questions. People might fear that they need to write a book to respond adequately to this one . Also, you'll probably get a spread of opinions in amswer. I'll give you a few thoughts, but they are just IMHO and not gospel. First off, Ellusionist is a brandname. The actual word is illusionist, usually reserved for large scale stage magic. I normally don't worry aboutthis kind of thing on forums, but it is important that any promotional materials you put out use terminology that does not confuse potential clients. Question 1. There are many fire gimmicks out there, but before you get too excited, remember that some venues discourage fire for health, safety, and insurance reasons. Extra care nust be taken when performing with fire. Also most fire effects use expendable materials which are often costly and present recurring costs. Use for if you like, and it certainly is attractive to audiences, but just be aware of the pitfalls. Question 2. The best deck for card magic is...a borrowed one, and the second best deck is one that is familiar to the audience. Many of the fancy decks scream "trick " deck to a layman. I think they are best used by those into XCM - but XCM is a display of skill where how normal the cards appear is not an issue. In magic, I think it is. Also , there are legitimate uses for fanning decks for fanning, and special manipulation cards for on stage card productions and the such, but I wouldn't use either for closeup card magic. Question 3. Ask this of any number of magicians and you will probably get different answers. I personally wouldn't be investing in single trick DVDs at this point. You are much better off with a book, or a set of DVDs such as Mike Ammar's series on card magic. As for great card tricks - look at some of the classics to start with, such as Ambitious Card, Triumph, Twisting the Aces, Cannibal Cards, Cards Across and so many others, all of which are available in multiple variations. There are many great books out there that can help you (and I would recommend Giobbi's "Card College", anything by Harry Lorayne, and - well I could just go on forever listiong writer's and books). Question 4. The best IT to use, the best setup for it and all the other questions you have about IT are really dependent on what kind of effect you are trying to create. A length of IT would be used for a different set of effects then those that you would use a loop for. Find out what the effect is that you want to do, and then research the appropriate hookups, IT types and so on. Question 5. Sounds good, but let me ask you this - Are you intending to perform in tails, because a top hat is pretty silly looking if you are dressed casually. There are those who will tell you that top hats are outdated, but they can work, assuming that they suit your character and your act. Hope this helps and gives you something to think about. |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Quote:
If you have in mind any other mind blowing trick or gimmick I will be happy to tell me about it:) ( not the reveal of course but that to look for:) I would recommend books and performance lessons. It's *YOU* that needs to be "mind-blowing", _not_ a trick or gimmick. Keep in mind that when you watch a demo video on a dealer's site (like ellusionist or theory11), you are watching _professionals_ make the trick look awesome, not the other way around. And you are not yet professional. Read through the posts here. There are many on building a routine - and you will NOT be advised to go buy a bunch of stuff to "build" a routine. Basically, a routine (a small set of tricks) is built to target a specific audience. So you must have your audience in mind first. Or at least have some tricks ready that will draw the audience you want. Then ~later on~ when you are _ready_ to build a SHOW out of more than one routine, you THEN buy stuff to build tricks into routines into a show for THAT audience. Right now, find three tricks that you can do reasonably well. Build them into a routine: pick one to be the opener, figure out how it will flow into your middle trick, and then flow that one into your closing trick. That is how you build a routine. Or - just get some tricks down and go have fun with friends. That's perfectly fine. Along the way, you'll find a lot of questions answered, including "what should I buy next?" You'll buy something because (a) you want it for a specific application and (b) you have in mind how and when you'll use it (you have a show that it fits into and the venue to use it). Cheers! Ed |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
HI,
So a couple of comments. Fire is very cool, but often not very practical. In particular you said you thought you'd just be performing for friends which sounds informal to me. In an informal setting, fire can be quite dangerous and must be handled VERY carefully. Fire props also must be carefully handled and stored. I have a few, mostly for stage work (flashpaper, an electric hand-cannon, a thumb tip with a wick that uses lighter fluid.) I store ALL of them in a locked fire-safe box I got at the office supply place. I use that to transport them as well and only take them out right before any performance and put them right back afterward. As a cautionary tale, I had my first hand-cannon in highschool and for awhile carried it around in my pocket. One day my keys in my pocket bridged the switch contacts and it went off IN that pocket. I put a nice little burn through the pocket and on my leg. Luckily my mom never noticed the burn hole or I probably wouldn't have been allowed another flame prop til I left home. My best advice for you however is.... don't let your money do what my hand-cannon did and burn a hole in your pocket. Spend a few dollars on a couple of really good slight of hand books and, if you don't have one, a full length mirror (you can get one that goes on your wall at Target, Walmart or Bed Bath and Beyond for $15 - $20. I just got a really nice one that stands up by itself for about $60 at the Christmas Tree Store). Then practice, practice and practice some more. In the long run the handful of slights I learned in junior high-school have been far more valuable then any of the props I have bought. There are two kinds of props, in general. The "trick" kind that are good for doing one or two very specific effects and the "utility" variety. Utilities are often (though not always) a bit more expensive, and take more creativity generally to use, but will let you do a large variety of different illusions. When you DO buy a prop, just buy one or two at a time and again, really practice with them. In magic, quality of performance is everything. If you want proof, I can show you some videos on you tube of people who spent a LOT of money on fancy props, and are awful because they can't perform with them. In terms of props and tricks, I'd recommend a few resources. (1) There is a great section on this forum called 'The Good, the Bad and The Garbage.' (2) Join an organization like SAM or the IBM and read their magazine which you will get sent every month. These are wonderful resources full of tips, suggestions, inspiring stories and magic prop reviews. (3) The "World Magic Shop" has a wonderful weekly review. Just don't run out and buy everything they say is good. Watch for awhile and get a feel for the whole range of available props before you spend your money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HpeDgnsn......gr5tKlVo (4) IF you can find a GOOD brick and mortar store then the advice of the people there (both staff and other customers) is absolutely invaluable. You can tell a good shop if (a) professional magicians hang out in it and/or (b)the clerk spends time finding out what you are interested in and then makes tailored suggestions rather then just pushing the newest or most expensive thing at you. They should also sell by demonstration, but have a good idea of what your skill level is. Remember, just because the clerk can make it look wonderful doesn't necc. mean you can. At least, not yet.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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coolini Regular user australia 176 Posts |
Hi Amadeus,
pple who are marketing magic dvds and tricks and props are doing a great job in making you feel that you need to spend at least thousands of dollard before you being a good magician... truth is once you ve done that you become a magic tricks collector...and you get the magic tricks lust, each time you c a trailer of an effect that you don't figure out how its done, it becomes on your wish list... answer is don't let them bank on you my friend... a magic book is the best investment, anything from j. jay course in magic to tarbell series. if you are more a visual learner,grab DVDs that teach you the basics first...and before doing any purchase, check the magic Café (thats one of the reasons why this place is wonderful)...you'll find thread and fire effects are not for everybody (some pple get frustrated and give up on them...some pple simply don't look natural doing these effects...and for others, its simply not their style). last advice, join a magic club in your city or take some advice from a local magician from your town... and good luck!!! |
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
Hello, Amadeus. Welcome to the Café.
Escherwolf is right about a lot of questions. Don’t expect too much kissing on the first date. Hang out a while and get to know to crowd. They’re a (usually) friendly and always helpful bunch of people who LOVE Magic! That said, here’s what comes to mind, just on the surface. First thing: save your money. Spending $500 on props and gimmicks makes no sense at all until you’ve spent some time talking with Magicians and finding out what’s what. I love the Café, but sorry, that’s just not gonna get you the same info as visiting a brick and mortar Magic Shoppe, and bugging the man behind the counter until he throws you out. Find a reputable dealer, even if it means driving two or three hours. He’s going to tell you what’s right for you at your stage of development. Instead of spending money, spend some time with those DVD’s. You may learn how to make some of your own props, and if you need to buy supplies (like IT) they tell you the best kind(s) to use. Also, do a search for posts here by member Ron Jaxon, a very creative guy, and one of the best “thread workers” around. You’ll learn much. Deck of Cards: escherwolf nailed it. Borrowed is best. Whatever is familiar to the crowd you’re working is second best. Avoid “special” decks like the plague. At one point I stopped even doing Svengali until I could find some with a Bike back. (If you’re doing Bizarre, SOME of the rules are different.) My cards come from Wal-mart and Target. For the rest, many of your questions will likely be answered in those DVDs you haven’t watched yet. Please don’t think it’s a put-off when I say, come back after you’ve spent some time with them. Magic is exciting and you feel like you just can’t wait to get started. But do yourself (and us) a favor and take your time to learn Magic properly. It will be worth your time!
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
I've written quite a few books JUST FOR YOU. As mentioned above. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Amadeus_bg ~ am guessing English isn't your first language ;-)
Buy the car, it will get you to work or where ever to get more money You can't buy what makes magic, you must create magic yourself, to do that you must learn The work from Harry Lorayne you need now is Tarbell Volume 7, Get the entire set of books by Tarbell and you'll have more magic and understanding about the art of magic that you'll ever use Best magic shop in the world has them here http://www.dennymagic.com/cgi-bin/hazel.......m=001250 Let's make it easy for you Like cards and fire, ok? Secret a Svengali deck in your hand, light flash paper to cover your card deck production (make it look like it came from the fire), do a simple Svengali routine. When you have that down post again if you wish and I'll add more to your first routine To just spend money to spend it makes no sense, learn the art, read the books, becomes a student, maybe some day an artist Want to do IT? Eleven words for you Wooley Nylon, Wax Bowl Ring, a lot of time and patience Will give you a lifetime supply of IT (and wax) for under $12 USD You don't need anything fancy until you learn the basics, the tarantula would NOT work for you right now as you can not do any IT work well. Learn the work, then think advanced gimmicks Stay away from most on line shows, I don't like Ellisionist or Penguin, but they will both be glad to take your money Read my post about wanting to be a great magician just a few topics down in this section Welcome to the journey, no shortcuts here but a great view along the way
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
The Tarbell Volume I wrote (#7) is okay, but the work of mine he REALLY needs now is LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Volume 1. Best - HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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amadeus_bg New user 6 Posts |
First I want to thank all of you guys about your answers:)
You are all right and made me think over a couple of things like spending the 500$ and about fire. Thing is that I want to buy anything (I know it is impossible) or at least the most important things that I will need at least for the year ahead because in my country (Bulgaria) there is just 1 magic shop , that for example sells Arcane for 22 $ (regular price is 7-8$..) and not to mention more complicated stuff. My intention is to perform really in an informal surrounding. You made me really think over fire magic and effects so I should probably look for a simple fire gimmick a kind of ignitter for the flash paper or something that makes a little flash (although I must be careful with it too), I liked a fire wallet, too (especially that one http://www.peteraustinmagic.net/id120.html, as far as I remember I found it here on the Café) could you please tell advice me either to buy a fire wallet or not and maybe if you like some other wallet let me now:) Actually now I am ready to invest more in supplies and later on buy some more dvd(s) and books (right now I have some) + that I can buy them easier and shipping won't be such a problem. I was thinking much about cards. Truth is that basicly I can't borrow decks from people. Playing cards in Bulgaria are crap (for real). When I first thought about ghost and other black decks I was thinking that I can present them in front of my friends as decks that are kind of mistique and hold the souls of great magicians or something ( although I was goint to show them that are regular cards despite of that). Really liked the idea about the fire produced Svengali deck and definetely going to try it when I get my stuff. I am definetely going to look for the books and dvd(s) you mentioned. Thank you all for answering my questions again:) Best Wishes |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
HI,
Wow, okay that puts a bit of a different spin. Are you buying this on a trip out of Bulgaria? if so, to where? Maybe some people from where you are going can advise you here on the best magic shop. This really sounds like something where you want to be led by the hand by a good shopkeep. As for cards, given your situation, I'd try to buy a case of Bicycle decks. At least a 12 count box of mixed red and black. I got my last box at Costco (an american discount house that sells things in bulk) but there must be other places to buy them this way.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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amadeus_bg New user 6 Posts |
Hello again:)
I am not going to travel but a friend of mine is in the USA right now so I can use her to bring me some stuff when she's coming back to Bulgaria - in the beginning of September I think (for example I am going to order and send them to her address, don't want to bother her searching for stuff, I am already feeling uncomfortable asking her:). Another friend of mine is going ti Switzerland next week and he is going to be there for about a month, too. About bicycles, the cheapest ones that I found on the net was those in theory11 (not sure about ebay bundles tough) Best Wishes Edit: Just saw that in theory11 12 bices are 22,68$ (regular black and blue backs) but shipping even to USA is 15$ o_O. Seems too high for me, found some deals on ebay for 23,39 with free shipping (again 12) |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
If she doesn't have a weight limit then ask your friend to bring you a box. I think I paid $14 for a box of 12 at Costco.
Posted: Jul 8, 2010 5:32pm So, I'm wondering if maybe we shouldn't give this gentleman a short list of worthwhile utility props to have? What would you guys think? I love my Peter Nardi Extractor, I think its a prop with many uses. What about a production device? A dove pan? A flip-over box? I'm trying to think in terms of props he will get long term use out of for many different illusions...
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
It’s a good idea, Cyberqat.
I’m still thinking “books” is the best device. Royal Road at least. A brick of Bikes. A corner cutter (although I’ve always just used regular nail clippers). A card case with loose (removable) flap. Svengali & Invisible decks with Bike backs. I usually have a Pinochle deck lying around as well, for “extra” cards. Vick already mentioned the toilet ring as a lifetime supply of wax. It’s not just for IT work. I’ve used it on cards and coins as well. I can’t tell him what kind of IT is best; I bought a spool from my local shop a while back and I’m still using it. For fire, I’d stick with flash paper, IF it’s transportable without setting off Homeland Security warnings. A fire wallet looks nice and all, but too much money for just starting out. Later on, if fire magic really becomes his “thing”, he can get one then. For production devices, a Square Circle is hard to beat, and simple to make your own. A tri-fold screen is also pretty simple, but will take some work to get it just right. I just don’t see him needing to spend all that much money. I know next to nothing about Bulgaria, but it seems as though the internet is closer than the library. I’d be checking out http://www.lybrary.com
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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amadeus_bg New user 6 Posts |
Well , after all that has been written I really decided to try it out (at first) only with couple of bicycles, Woolly and some kind of wax.
Another question popped up (shall I use regular bicycles or it's better to use the blue/red masters edition) - saw them at ellusionist and the description said they lasted 7 times longer (+ it is only 1 dollar more expensive). Best Wishes |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
I use cheap, plain bicycles. But I also am not a big fanning guy or even a serious card manipulator. My skills with cards end at some shuffle-control, a riffle force, a basic palm, a basic fan, and an arm turnover (that last is MUCH easier then it looks.)
I actually prefer bridge size cards as I have narrow hands, but to get bridge bicycles you generally have to go to a magic supply shop, plus almost no one makes bridge-sized gaffs so that forced me to the poker size.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Whitewolfny Loyal user 216 Posts |
I would like to suggest something different, yet simple. You need three things, a finger ring or similar, a string, and stick (magic wand). I know there are many books that describe how to get the ring to pass from the string onto the stick (wand). This may not sound like much of a trick, but when I involve two volunteers, to hold the ends of the string and wand they all agree there's no way the ring could get off the string and on to the wand. But magically it does.
The reaction I have received from this simple "beginner's" trick is amazing. I did it at work almost two years ago at a going-away party and I still get comments about it today. Powerful magic is truly in the eye of the beholder. I think sometimes we as magicians become jaded to some tricks because it was "the first trick I ever learned" or it came from a beginner's book of magic. Sure we all want to progress in our performances and skills. We want to learn new, bigger, better tricks, and sometimes I think we feel that unless the method involves great intricacies of manipulation or super fancy gimmicks, then our audience will somehow think the trick is not very good. Simple tricks, with ordinary, every day props that are familiar to everyone can have an astounding effect on a lay audience. Think of Chink-a-chink with sugar cubes or a simple coin through the table. These effects can be mesmerizing to people who have no clue about the method. Cards are great and many people love card tricks, but what is a card trick? Pick a card and I'll tell you what it is or it appears in some "impossible" place. Simple props can make strong magic.
Braxton Mannar
<BR>Just an old dog trying to learn new tricks |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Whitewolfny: If you think that all card magic is "Pick a card and I'll tell you what it is or it appears in some impossible place" you really have absolutely no concept of card magic. You really should not be giving advice, not after that statement. Well, of course, you're right about chink-a-chink with sugar cubes (or soda bottle caps, or crumpled dollar bills) or a simple coin-through-table effect, but you obviously have no concept of card magic. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
Wow, that's the first time I've seen Harry miffed.
He is right, of course, the number and variety of illusions with cards is truly astounding. There are many many volumes of card illusions in the world as well as quite a few that are still private to their creators. I had the chance to see a great close up card worker years ago at Ceasar's Magical Empire (before they trashed it to build the theater for the quickly-folding Celine Dione show.) It was an amazing half hour of minor miracles. Seeing a truly great card worker is a wonderful experience that can easily fill as much time as he or she cares to give you.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Bobbert Regular user Alberta, Canada 152 Posts |
I think, you are trying to be everything at once, and in my experience that is a very very very hard thing to do. By everything at once I mean closeup, parlor, levitation, card, coin everything at once. My advice is to find out which one you like, get good at it and then move on to the next one. The draw back to that is it took me 5 years to get out of cards ahaha.
As a close-up card magician primarily and at heart here is what I would say Keep in mind its matter of personal preference again, find what you like and go for it. 1. I only use fire to get attention, therefore as a gag rather then a magic thing. I really like fire wallets in that aspect (Use it like David Stone kinda) 2. I am a Cardist at heart as well but I am also a magician. In that aspect I would say: Magician: Bicycle or Dr. Leon Cardistry/flourishing: Alladin 1001, Tally-Ho, Studs Manipulation: Bees 3. If you are just starting, get Royal Road... everything in there is pretty good. I really like Design for Laughter ^^ However if you want really useful hard sleights that take months of hard work I would recommend you check out Kostya Kimlat... in like 2-3 years. If you just want good stuff to work on, after Royal Road decide if you like impromptu or gimmicked and move on from there by surfing the fourms Distortion is cool but I recommend someone starting out to work on sleight stuff rather then gimmicked stuff 4. Yigal stuff is good. Don't get a tarantula unless you want to work a lot with IT. Most kids probably just throw it in the closet. Yes it is delicate. Mine was in my closet till I gave it away. 5. I do not recommend it unless you want to be a parlor stage and again try to find out what kind of magic you want to do. |
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