The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » The Oldest Deception (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
These are all great leads - terrific information.
Thank you.
All of this is making me wonder if there is a market for a truly comprehensive book: The Cups & Balls from Antiquity to the Modern Era.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
Quote:
On 2010-07-12 17:44, fortasse wrote:
Panlives:

$800?? That could only be Robert Gwodz (just kidding). Still, that's way too much. Unless you're in big rush for it, a little bit of patience is likely to be rewarded. As I indicated in an earlier post, a copy or two should show up at auction during the course of the year and I seriously doubt that the hammer price would be more than $300 or so.

There is no other book that I'm aware of that covers the 15th and 16th centuries the way that Volkmann did. There's the Art of Deception by Chuck Romano (the first chapter) but I'm not sure that's really what you're looking for. The late Bob Read was THE authority on cups and balls in graphic art but his special period of interest was essentially the 18th and 19th centuries. He gave a lecture on the subject that he subsequently published in photocopy form : "The Cups and Balls in 19th Century Graphic Art". It is extremely rare. Even rarer is the later edition under the same title but with the words "Second Spasm" added at the end. In each instance, however, you need to be forewarned that the quality of the prints is dreadful : photocopies of photocopies in the pre Photoshop era! Still, it's a great source of information (and it needs to be said that Read himself pointed out in his Introduction that the copies were only intended to give a general idea of what they were about.

Incidentally, Michael Ammar's Cups & Balls DVD set includes some video inserts with Bob Read showing and commenting on some of his vast collection of C&B lithographs - great stuff!.

Probably the most affordable and most readily accessible book featuring C&B prints through the ages is Milbourne Christopher's Panorama of Magic.

One last thing : if you're interested in reading some of Volkmann's articles on C&B in art while you're waiting to buy The Oldest Deception at a reasonable price, you can check out The Sphinx which is available online from a number of different sources. His article "Renaissance Art" in the Sphinx (vol.49 (1950) includes nine of the prints that eventually made their way into his book (that's a pretty high percentage). And then there is Volkmann's "Conjurers of the Sixteenth Century" which you'll find in the Sphinx vol. 52 (1953).

Hope this helps.

Fortasse


Yes, it helps! Thank you.

By the way - from the A.B.E. listing (It was US $825):

The Oldest Deception
Volkmann, Kurt
Bookseller: Robert Gwodz
(Burbank, CA, U.S.A.)

Bookseller Rating:

Quantity Available: 1
Book Description: 1956, 1st edition, as new condition, red cloth binding, not issued with dust jacket, published by Carl W. Jones, Minneapolis, 48 pages. A study of the Cups and Balls in the art of the 15th and 16th Centuries, illustrated with the prints and drawings of the period. An informative and scholarly study for the Magical historian. Gill #1031, Christopher vol.2 #2936, Findlay p.263. Much sought, quite scarce and more so in this exceptionally nice condition!. Bookseller Inventory # 007825

Bookseller & Payment Information |More Books from this Seller |Ask Bookseller a Question

Price: US$ 825.00

Convert Currency

Shipping: US$ 14.00

From U.S.A. to Canada
Destination
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
fortasse
View Profile
Inner circle
1196 Posts

Profile of fortasse
As I said, it just had to be gwodz. Sure knows how to charge, that's for sure.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24272 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
If you really get interested in a copy of it, don't spend $800 for it. See me first.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Richard Evans
View Profile
Inner circle
1377 Posts

Profile of Richard Evans
Quote:
On 2010-07-12 17:44, fortasse wrote:
$800?? That could only be Robert Gwodz (just kidding).


:lol: Exactly what I thought.
I've had a trawl of recent auction results and around $200-$250 seems to be the going rate for this book.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
Bill Wilson
View Profile
Special user
536 Posts

Profile of Bill Wilson
Darn, was thinking of selling my copy. For eight hundred, why not. If it's worth only two hundred I may as well hang on to it.
Bill Wilson
View Profile
Special user
536 Posts

Profile of Bill Wilson
If anyone is interested in owning a copy of this little book, there is presently one on Martinka`s auction site. Auction closes a week from today.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24272 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
There are a lot of "interesting" items in that auction. "Cupro-nickel" P&L cups? HMMMM.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Bill Wilson
View Profile
Special user
536 Posts

Profile of Bill Wilson
Not to mention a strange looking 'Russian' chop cup.
fortasse
View Profile
Inner circle
1196 Posts

Profile of fortasse
Yep, lots of goodies!

Fortasse
panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24272 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Just to clarify things -- the original title of the book in German is Das Becherspiel, which means "the cups and balls."

The oldest deception is probably not the cups and balls. It is probably either, "Not tonight, I have a headache." or "If I'm not back by dark, don't worry about me. I'll be out on a hunt with the rest of the tribe."
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
conjurormatt
View Profile
Regular user
Ft. Worth, TX
181 Posts

Profile of conjurormatt
For those who don't have the pocketbook for a hard copy, Lybrary.com has an e-book of the English edition:

http://www.lybrary.com/oldest-deception-......064.html

Cheers!
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
~Dai Vernon
conjurormatt
View Profile
Regular user
Ft. Worth, TX
181 Posts

Profile of conjurormatt
I apologize for putting up a duplicate link, I should have looked at what Panlives had posted.
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
~Dai Vernon
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24272 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
BTW, if you don't have a big library of cups and balls material, and you want to acquire one fairly inexpensively, lybrary.com is a great place to start.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
conjurormatt
View Profile
Regular user
Ft. Worth, TX
181 Posts

Profile of conjurormatt
Just curious Bill, what, in your opinion, are the "must have" books for a cups and ball library?

Thanks,
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
~Dai Vernon
panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
Quote:
On 2010-08-24 19:55, conjurormatt wrote:
I apologize for putting up a duplicate link, I should have looked at what Panlives had posted.



Hey - no problem!
If it is seen again later in the thread, Lybrary.com gets the business, which helps us all.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24272 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Quote:
On 2010-08-28 15:12, conjurormatt wrote:
Just curious Bill, what, in your opinion, are the "must have" books for a cups and ball library?

Thanks,


ALL of them!

It depends on what you intend to do with the cups and balls. If you want historical material, that's one thing. If you want performing material, that's another.

Hocus Pocus Junior, Ozanam, Guyot, Modern Magic, Complete Cups and Balls by Michael Ammar, any book with Tommy Wonder's routine in it. Tarbell, Dai Vernon on Cups and Balls.

You will get plenty of both with these books.

Also, the standard works on misdirection and Bobo's Modern Coin Magic.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
fortasse
View Profile
Inner circle
1196 Posts

Profile of fortasse
Interesting that what looks to be a mint copy of Volkmann's book went for only $66 at today's Martinka auction. There was no reserve on this item, so the high bidder got himself one helluva good deal.

Fortasse
conjurormatt
View Profile
Regular user
Ft. Worth, TX
181 Posts

Profile of conjurormatt
Was it one particular Tarbell book, or is the cups and balls material spread throughout the Course?
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
~Dai Vernon
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » The Oldest Deception (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL