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dpe666
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I just got back from my gig, and I put this thread to the test. I do a "Lie Detector" effect in which a spectator thinks of a card, and I ask them a series of questions about the card. To answer each question the spectator can either tell me the truth or they can lie to me. Of course I tell them if they are lying or telling the truth until I can reveal their card. I am ALWAYS asked to repeat it. I did it three times for a single group, but on the 3rd try, I "missed". They believed it was real even more after that. Missing can be a good thing as a convincer in some situations. Smile
Faustus Revixit
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No performer needs to be 100 percent perfect. But she or he needs to be 100 percent entertaining. Struggling makes you a hero and heros are more entertaining than flawless wonders.

The best mentalists make outright guesses from time to time. When they hit, that's what stops the show and people talk about for a long, long time.
OldNick
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I wanna throw Don Theo III´s ebook "Broken" into the discussion.

Beside the great effects in it it is a very good read about this topic´s subject.

After reading "Svenvelopes" you will know if (scripted) intentional misses are good or not... Smile
Sensio
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One of the most valuable threads on the Café...
..ever!
kinesis
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Quote:
On 2010-07-13 19:49, C.J. wrote:

Now, the first makes the audience say "Wow, he has powers", but the second creates a much deeper emotional response from your audience. You take them on a rollercoaster ride of feelings, and leave them feeling touched, warmed and inspired, not just impressed.

It's not all about us.


After a miss or near miss it creates a certain amount of tension within the audience that the performer has the potential to fail. The performer who is always 100% is predictable (pun intended).

Derek

Quote:
On 2010-07-13 23:05, dpe666 wrote:
I just got back from my gig, and I put this thread to the test. I do a "Lie Detector" effect in which a spectator thinks of a card, and I ask them a series of questions about the card. To answer each question the spectator can either tell me the truth or they can lie to me. Of course I tell them if they are lying or telling the truth until I can reveal their card. I am ALWAYS asked to repeat it. I did it three times for a single group, but on the 3rd try, I "missed". They believed it was real even more after that. Missing can be a good thing as a convincer in some situations. Smile


OMG! I do a very similar routine and love to miss occasionally if I repeat it for more than one person in the same crowd. This throws the skeptics and is a great convincer. Again, if it was a trick I wouldn't fail. LOL
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






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Darth_Prime
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Personally I believe in all psychic powers, I also believe that everyone could have this ability with training, meditation etc etc.

as far as moving objects with the mind, or bending metal, that kind of stuff, if you had the mind powers to do it, you would never miss, or not be able to move a certain object because you are influencing that objects energy.

if your talking about thought transfer, mind reading etc. then it would also depend on the other person, because now your trying to mesh with their energy as well, to create a thought channel if you will. so it would depend on both parties. so while to be believable you should have a very high success rate. maybe a slight miss here or there. but I've seen many bad acting mentalist, and it all seems contrived
dpe666
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Quote:
On 2010-07-15 08:49, kinesis wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-13 23:05, dpe666 wrote:
I just got back from my gig, and I put this thread to the test. I do a "Lie Detector" effect in which a spectator thinks of a card, and I ask them a series of questions about the card. To answer each question the spectator can either tell me the truth or they can lie to me. Of course I tell them if they are lying or telling the truth until I can reveal their card. I am ALWAYS asked to repeat it. I did it three times for a single group, but on the 3rd try, I "missed". They believed it was real even more after that. Missing can be a good thing as a convincer in some situations. Smile


OMG! I do a very similar routine and love to miss occasionally if I repeat it for more than one person in the same crowd. This throws the skeptics and is a great convincer. Again, if it was a trick I wouldn't fail. LOL


My routine can be found on the Fundamentalism DVD. All it is is a R***** F****. Smile
kinesis
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Quote:
On 2010-07-16 10:30, dpe666 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-15 08:49, kinesis wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-13 23:05, dpe666 wrote:
I just got back from my gig, and I put this thread to the test. I do a "Lie Detector" effect in which a spectator thinks of a card, and I ask them a series of questions about the card. To answer each question the spectator can either tell me the truth or they can lie to me. Of course I tell them if they are lying or telling the truth until I can reveal their card. I am ALWAYS asked to repeat it. I did it three times for a single group, but on the 3rd try, I "missed". They believed it was real even more after that. Missing can be a good thing as a convincer in some situations. Smile


OMG! I do a very similar routine and love to miss occasionally if I repeat it for more than one person in the same crowd. This throws the skeptics and is a great convincer. Again, if it was a trick I wouldn't fail. LOL


My routine can be found on the Fundamentalism DVD. All it is is a R***** F****. Smile


Ah, I use a S* S****ins set up. Specs have a totally free choice of card but you still know it. Smile Smile
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






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Simon (Ted) Edwards
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I think it was on Get Nyman that Andy Nyman related an anecdote about accidentally messing up an effect. This caused one gentleman to become very confused, as he'd previously assumed Andy was performing 'magic' tricks but that clearly this was not the case...
praetoritevong
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Quote:
On 2010-07-16 11:41, Ted wrote:
I think it was on Get Nyman that Andy Nyman related an anecdote about accidentally messing up an effect. This caused one gentleman to become very confused, as he'd previously assumed Andy was performing 'magic' tricks but that clearly this was not the case...


Yes, you're right, I remember the story.

It's basically what you said. He was performing a version of Bank Nite, from memory, or something similar, and his method of identification messed up somewhere, so he guessed - and got the one furthest away from where the correct envelope was. And it fried the specs, who mentioned something along the line of "I thought he was only performing magic tricks the whole time" and greatly strengthened his performance.
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Hey Jay,

Let me give you another example:
Two mentalist pretending to read minds and Two DJ´s are mixing and matching beats and both use the same songs… BUT they both do not really do what they pretend (like the mentalists) they have a pre recorded CD or DVD playing that they have recorded at home and they just act like they are beat mixing their songs live. Now one DJ has a perfect set and the other made a few small (deliberate) mistakes, where the beats don´t matchup perfectly…

Who would you think is doing a live gig? Would you doubt the one making mistakes? NO!

Naturally:
Presentation is everything!!!

Cheers,
John
Frank Douglas
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Quote:
On 2010-07-18 15:17, MrHoudini666 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aKBU15thSQ&feature=related

Can't believe I've never heard of Gerry McCambridge.

Does anyone know if he has written any books? He seems like a master of Muscle Reading but I don't see how he can pick up Names and Numbers like that...


Great example of the principle from another thread.

Cheers
Frank
David de Leon
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I compiled a list of reasons to miss once in a while. Some have been brought up already, some are new to the thread, I think.

You might occasionally miss:

* Because it can build believeability.

a) Why would you miss if you were cheating? This is stronger if obvious alternative explanations (like you messed up) are ruled out.

b) A particular kind of miss allows the spectator to draw inferences about how your powers work (cf. Cassidy’s Carol/Karol, or Arce’s 6 degrees). This creates depth and believability.

c) You have already been open/explicit about your powers and the mistake is explainable in terms of the ability being demonstrated. For example: in translating from one mode of perception to another (visual or emotional to a verbal description).

* Because it can create suspense (like the circus artists needing several attempts to do the really hard stuff).

* Because making mistakes allows you to take methodological risks.

* Because it allows you to tell a story (i.e. say something about the nature of your power; or as a dramaturgical device in a show, for example, you make mistakes because you are figuring out how your newfound powers work.)

* As an effect in itself. For example, you make a mistake, then explain that your powers don’t function under circumstances x. This x then turns out to be a verifiable and correct prediction. X is removed and your powers return.


Another thought:

If you first get it wrong and then get it right. What accounts for the difference?

The trouble could lie with the performer: perhaps you need a rest, need to do a focusing exercise, or change the procedure in some way.

Or the problem could be with the subject: perhaps you need to soften them up psychologically in some way to make them more transparent (you might have them to recite the alphabet backwards).

Or there may be something in the situation: you are too far away from the person, you need to be touching, people in the audience need do some mental exercise.

My 2 cents Smile
Amirá
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Today I "fail" in a telepathy moment

http://www.vimeo.com/13496165

is the middle effect
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godot
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Quote:
After a miss or near miss it creates a certain amount of tension within the audience that the performer has the potential to fail. The performer who is always 100% is predictable (pun intended).

Derek


Fully agree with this sentiment, for me a miss is apart of looking at my show as a whole rather than segments.

If I am finishing with a russian roulette, spike routine or something else that has an element of 'danager' then I like to have one or two misses earlier on in the routine. The audience then know I am not infallible and also well aware of the danger hightening their emotional investment in the routine.

With good stage management if elevates a decent routine into something that feels special. I don't think it would have the same effect if I had 100% hits upto that point.
edh
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Godot, that's very good. I like that.
Magic is a vanishing art.
DT3
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Quote:
On 2010-07-14 18:07, OldNick wrote:
I wanna throw Don Theo III´s ebook "Broken" into the discussion.

Beside the great effects in it it is a very good read about this topic´s subject.

After reading "Svenvelopes" you will know if (scripted) intentional misses are good or not... Smile


Thanks so much for the mention Nick! What a great thread.

D.
AlluTallu
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Quote:
On 2010-07-20 17:08, godot wrote:

If I am finishing with a russian roulette, spike routine or something else that has an element of 'danager' then I like to have one or two misses earlier on in the routine. The audience then know I am not infallible and also well aware of the danger hightening their emotional investment in the routine.



Thanks, just moved my Russian Roulette -routine to the end of my show Smile And added a risky psychological force before it. If I miss, it bouilds some suspense that's needed anyway. On the other hand, if I succeed, it's going to be one of the strongest moments of my show.

Quote:
On 2010-07-17 19:34, Dr. Eamon wrote:
Hey Jay,

Let me give you another example:
Two mentalist pretending to read minds and Two DJ´s are mixing and matching beats and both use the same songs… BUT they both do not really do what they pretend (like the mentalists) they have a pre recorded CD or DVD playing that they have recorded at home and they just act like they are beat mixing their songs live. Now one DJ has a perfect set and the other made a few small (deliberate) mistakes, where the beats don´t matchup perfectly…

Who would you think is doing a live gig? Would you doubt the one making mistakes? NO!

Naturally:
Presentation is everything!!!

Cheers,
John


Thanks for sharing this great example Smile

I love this thread!
Stefmagic
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When a mentalist near missed, it became in the head of the audience, more credible, more believable. Don't take your audience for non intelligent. When you're 100% perfect each time, it became more of mental "tricks".

That's why I never for exemple, revealed just a word. I ask to get a visual image of what the word is and then, I draw something that looks like it.

A great exemple of it, is Max Maven's Autome
drezmagic
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Derren Brown loves doing near misses.

I personally think that he missed that recent roulette prediction (on his "Events" special) simply because of this idea. Anyone else agree?

It all has to do with being too perfect. If you were a real psychic or mentalist, you most likely would miss every now and then. No one is perfect at anything, ever.
It adds credibility and shows that what you are doing is difficult and risky. It also negates the idea of trickery, as brought up earlier, if you are to peak the name "Charles" written on a paper and then revealed a spectators thought with "Charlie" there is less of a chance that they will think you must have looked. Because the spectator is expecting exactly what the OP is thinking: that you will get it exactly right. When you purposely miss, but close enough, it makes the gears in your spectators brain start turning, because it creates a logical disconnect with a peak.

However, I will disagree with previous people on this forum who believe that there is a huge difference between mentalism and mental magic. There may be a big difference for mentalists, but I really don't think so much for the average spectator.
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