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Whit Haydn
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On 2010-08-11 18:45, BIGmagiclV wrote:
I'm both amused and amazed that the people who deny the existence of man made climate change, regardless of the evidence, are the same people who have blind faith in a guy that can walk on water and rise from the dead. I have nothing against the latter. It's just interesting to me that they are the loudest in denouncing others beliefs.


That is a silly argument. I was an athiest and a Marxist until I was converted to Christianity in my senior year of college. I am a Christian--an Episcopalian. I believe that Climate Change is real, largely man-caused, and dangerous.

Here is an abstract of another study of published papers that comes up with a very similar percentage:

"Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreement among top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers."

The entire paper can be found here:

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/0......abstract

Danny, here I have presented two different peer-reviewed studies with two different methodologies. Both not only agree, but come up with identical results. Can you offer any statistics that challenge this? Why would you think I would cite a statistic that I "couldn't possibly prove?"
tommy
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Approximately 5% of the respondents were Climate Scientists. Said the survey. I am not sure what you and Wiki are saying John.



Oh Sorry looks like Whit has posted something else above.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Whit Haydn
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You are right on that, Tommy. I misread. It was 75 of 77 who were publishing climate scientists. I stand corrected. But the percentage of that report does reflect a similar percentage as in other studies.

I quoted a paper above by William R. L. Anderegg, James W. Prall, Jacob Harold and Stephen H. Schneider. Author Affiliations in order: Department of Biology, Stanford University, Stanford, CA, Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Palo Alto, CA and Woods Institute for the Environment, Stanford University, Stanford, CA. Results were 97%.

I also quoted this survey above, which I did misread the numbers of climate scientists involved, from University of Illinois at Chicago:

A survey published in 2009 by Peter Doran and Maggie Zimmerman of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Illinois at Chicago of 3146 Earth Scientists found that more than 97% of specialists on the subject (i.e. "respondents who listed climate science as their area of expertise and who also have published more than 50% of their recent peer-reviewed papers on the subject of climate change") agree that human activity is "a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures." 82% of ALL the Earth scientists participating also agreed with the 75 climate scientists. A summary from the survey states that:

“ It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes." The results were 97%.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2010-08-11 19:00, tommy wrote:
Approximately 5% of the respondents were Climate Scientists. Said the survey. I am not sure what you and Wiki are saying John.



Oh Sorry looks like Whit has posted something else above.


77 respondents were actively publishing climate scientists; they made up 2.4% of the sample.

Of the 77, 75 agreed with the statement; that is 97%.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2010-08-11 20:09, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-11 19:00, tommy wrote:
Approximately 5% of the respondents were Climate Scientists. Said the survey. I am not sure what you and Wiki are saying John.



Oh Sorry looks like Whit has posted something else above.


77 respondents were actively publishing climate scientists; they made up 2.4% of the sample.

Of the 77, 75 agreed with the statement; that is 97%.

John


The rest were Earth Scientists, and 82% of all of them agreed with the 97% of the climatologists.
Josh Riel
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I can't understand why so many people seem to revel in black and white and can't ever seem to see any gray (Grey? Grey seems right to me).

I guess it's always better in a fight to see the other side as evil, otherwise you'd feel bad shooting them.

Now back to our exiting, polarized, passionate, yet purely logical (Oddly, mutually exclusive in any other situation) discussion of absolute, irrefutable fact.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Whit Haydn
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Heavens! I don't think it is all black and white. That would be an ideological position. I am only 97% on the white side.
Josh Riel
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I just read the whole thread for some bizarre reason, I imagined all the claw marks on several screens where folk were trying desperately to reach through and strangle each other.

Let's start another thread where we prove that Socialism in any form will destroy our otherwise pure capitalistic utopia!
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
landmark
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Welcome to the Internet, our motto is:
"You believe differently? I hate you. You are evil, stupid, your very existence is anathema to everyone everywhere. And you're grammer isn't good"
-----------
Or your spelling.

Good to have you back Josh. Now where's the other guy?
tommy
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Ozone Hole Reaches Record Size

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/vi…
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2010-08-11 23:00, tommy wrote:
Ozone Hole Reaches Record Size

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/vi…


The link leads nowhere...or is that the joke?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Josh Riel
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Quote:
On 2010-08-11 21:26, landmark wrote:

-----------
Or your spelling.

Good to have you back Josh. Now where's the other guy?



Hay! mi speleen is gooder then yous is.
You'll all be sick of me soon enough, if not already.
What other guy? I thought I was the only relevant person in the whole world.

The ozone layer... what a giant gas hole. hahahahahahaha

On topic: My momma told me "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see."
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
tommy
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Its alright now, looks like they have filled it with new freezers.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=7044
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-08-11 21:00, Josh Riel wrote:
I just read the whole thread for some bizarre reason, I imagined all the claw marks on several screens where folk were trying desperately to reach through and strangle each other.

Let's start another thread where we prove that Socialism in any form will destroy our otherwise pure capitalistic utopia!


First we need to prove we have a "pure capitalistic utopia" or anything close.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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On 2010-08-11 18:52, Whit Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-11 18:45, BIGmagiclV wrote:
I'm both amused and amazed that the people who deny the existence of man made climate change, regardless of the evidence, are the same people who have blind faith in a guy that can walk on water and rise from the dead. I have nothing against the latter. It's just interesting to me that they are the loudest in denouncing others beliefs.


That is a silly argument. I was an athiest and a Marxist until I was converted to Christianity in my senior year of college. I am a Christian--an Episcopalian. I believe that Climate Change is real, largely man-caused, and dangerous.


Interesting how you converted to Christianity, but you have not said anything about what your stance on Marx is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Groucho Marx?

Weather it is I am against it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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I was a a Harpo Marxist myself.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2010-08-12 09:39, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-11 18:52, Whit Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-11 18:45, BIGmagiclV wrote:
I'm both amused and amazed that the people who deny the existence of man made climate change, regardless of the evidence, are the same people who have blind faith in a guy that can walk on water and rise from the dead. I have nothing against the latter. It's just interesting to me that they are the loudest in denouncing others beliefs.


That is a silly argument. I was an athiest and a Marxist until I was converted to Christianity in my senior year of college. I am a Christian--an Episcopalian. I believe that Climate Change is real, largely man-caused, and dangerous.


Interesting how you converted to Christianity, but you have not said anything about what your stance on Marx is.


Well, Marxism is an atheistic philosophy. I no longer consider myself a Marxist.
Dannydoyle
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Laws of matter and all.

Tough to get those ideas totally ou though huh?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Whit Haydn
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On 2010-08-12 16:21, Dannydoyle wrote:
Laws of matter and all.

Tough to get those ideas totally ou though huh?


I am sure there is an awful lot of distance between our understandings of economics and politics, and certainly on religion as well.

I am sure I am very to the left of you. But I pray for you and all my friends in mental darkness on a regular basis... Smile
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