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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Favorite Ellusionist Video (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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marko
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Crediting is not as difficult an issue an you would like it to be, Cardjinx. Most of the time the right person is being credited. All creators shouldn't be denied acknowledgement for their effort just because there are a few willing to take recognition for something they didn't invent.

And the things you mentioned aren't normally credited because they are used in nearly every card routine every invented and crediting them each time would get a little ridiculous.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
riberts
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Flicking back to the top of this thread and addressing the point of the post, I bought Street Magic from the ellusionist site when relatively new to magic.

Think that it is quite a good way of learning a couple of powerful effects - still do a couple such as 'Blaines'(?) Ashes effect which still get a very strong reaction. Have never seen either of the Ninjas or any of the newer stuff so not sure how it compares.

Looking back with a little bit more experience under my belt, I think that they are excellent for encouraging laymen or those new to the art to keep working at their magic. The flip side though is that they probably encourage equally those who think that you can learn magic overnight... you know, the laziness of watching how an effect is 'done' once and then going out and doing it cold without any real thought to patter, presentation etc and without any practice.

Also, I agree completely with the comment about crediting effects. If Brad's team have changed their ways, I apologize, but can't remember there having been any credits in Street Magic.

There are loads of ways to address this, be it a reference to the original name of the effect in the video with further detail in the end credits if required. Most other people seem to do a half decent job, so no reason why it should spoil the flow of the teaching.

I sound to be sitting on the fence a bit here?! In summary, probably wouldn't buy another Ellusionist video having now seen others on the market, however I think Brad did a pretty large part in my interest nowadays, so must be doing a reasonable job.


Cheers
Kelvin Ng
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Crediting is one of the most important things in magic! The Brilliant magicians that come up with such great magic and methods should always be credited! now, I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone, but if you don't care and give any credibility to other magicians that created these routines or moves, then why in the future should magicians give credit to you as a performer or anything?

Kelvin
"We tend to think that magic is all about us, what we do, and how we execute the tricks, when in actuality, it's really about what the spectator witnesses, imagines, and remembers in their minds."

- Wayne Houchin
HiveMind
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I can't believe you people punish the poster for something Ellusionist did. Why can't you give someone the freedom to LIKE ELLUSIONIST? Let it go.

That said...

I think Ninja II was the best of the ones I've seen, but there are plenty better (and more fairly priced) videos out there.
"Free will is an illusion." - B.F. Skinner
Cardjinx
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Thanks Scott, but you missed 2. Would it be Roger dealinggrip, or decko Cards?lol..

All I'm saying is that I think people can go a little crazy with crediting. I especially hate it when I find an old book that has a move published in 1930 that someone takes credit for in 1990. Now the 1990 guy is getting all the credit, but who cares, the 1930 guy is dead. Just messed up.

Same thing with foreign books. I have friends that have old German and Austrian books that have moves Vernon is credited with but was published long before Vernon created them.

All I'm saying is that crediting can be a double edged sword. No one really knows who created what. Just who popularized it.

Cardjinx

Smile
Apprentice
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Adding to Kelvin's point.

If Ellusionist doesn't care to give credit to any other magician's original effect or sleight........

THEN don't bother putting Ellusionist, Brad's name or any other Branding such as Ninja 1 or 2 on videos because nobody else wants to credit or respect Ellusionist either!

If respect is to be given to the style of Ellusionist's ability to present effects to laymen without referencing where important sleights or even WHOLE ROUTINES were COPIED from, THEN NO Respect or Crediting to Ellusionist should be done, because to laymen it's not important.

If Ellusionist and Brad can leave out the original creators of WHOLE ROUTINES, then they should leave out all their OWN NAMES such as Brad's and Ellusionist because even if they are doing a good job (under this lack of an arguement!) it's not worth respecting and beside the point to laymen anyways.

And why should fans of Ellusionist want to come out and GIVE MORE RESPECT/CREDIT to Ellusionist products and Brad for any aspect of what they do, when their philosophy is copy and don't credit or respect??

***That should mean that Ellusionist and Brad DON'T NEED CREDITING THEMSELVES EITHER!*****

BTW - I enjoyed that series with part 1 & 2 (who knows what it's called) I****e Magic by that guy with the dirty blonde hair. Especially that effect with that whatever B***le Grip. That company did a good marketing effect with the videos E*********t but who wants to know anyways!

As long as I got the routine, they don't need to be recognized.
:angel:
magikwizard3267
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I got the ninja 2 video from them a while back and the ambitious card routine is pretty good... but overpriced in my opinion.. but hey... you learn from your mistakes.. Smile
MasterOfMagic
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Wow, I unintentionally got 15 different people to post in a topic and almost none of those had to to with the topic.
marko
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It kind of had to do with the topic. He was asking what our favorite Ellusionist video was and the majority's response was "None, here's why...".
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
chrisM
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Honestly, but people see the name ellusionist and Brad and automatically decide they're going to bash whoever brought it up and Brad and ellusionist. People have to use their eyes and read what the topic is about... if they want to say this stuff, make a post that bashes people.
cyc
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Hi,

They are not trying to bash people. They are just trying to explain to you what they feel about ellusionist and trying to help you. Smile
chrisM
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They don't need to help me. I like their magic and I have their videos. I don't need help. (LOL that sounds like I'm crazy) LOL Smile
dr_tezza
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People should be able to form their own opinions. The question being asked was, what was your favourite Ellusionist video, not what do you think of the company.

As a fairly new person to magic, I look to these forums for advice so that I am able to form my own judgements. Had the question been answered in a better manner, maybe to discuss the pros and cons of the videos, then maybe alternatives to the Ellusionist items, if you don't like them, and why you found them better.

Everytime I have seen a topic on the Ellusionist videos, all I see is a review, or a question asked.

This topic is completely ignored and an arguement starts as to whether he should credit his work or not. As you all say, these sleights are already known, so once you've learned the sleight if you really want to know where it came from, go look in a book.

Maybe in the future we can give the guy a break and stick to the topic at hand, so people can learn from your knowledge and experience.

Dave
Pekka
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But one cannot really put the whole crediting issue aside. It doesn't work that way.

A magician is pretty much like a book collector (many are actually book collectors) or a wine collector.

Would you go to a wine collector's message board and say "I liked the Chatu Chateu... it was good, cheap and I got wasted"? I don't think the wine collectors are trying to get drunk. That is not the point of collecting wines. It is also not the point to merely find good reading material if you're a book collector. Collectors want to find specific books, first editions etc. not a paperback, no matter how convenient or cheap.

Same way magic is a collectible art. I believe that to truly be a magician one really has to get into the magic as an artform. Tricks and effects are only the most visual side of magic world. I have even heard magicians who never perform.

I kind of lost the plot here but what I am saying is that Ellusionist videos are paperbacks and the defenders of Brad are in the book collector's message board, so to speak.
chrisM
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All I'm saying is people should READ the topic before they write anything and make themselves look dumb. And people all have DIFFERENT opinions and this means that people think differently. So if I like something and "you" don't, then neither of us are wrong; that's just your opinion against mine. Smile
dr_tezza
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The point I was trying to make was that we all know the problems with the Ellusionist work, and it has been discussed so many times. It would be nice just to have a topic which discusses the contents of the videos as opposed to the crediting of the work.

Another point: if so many of you dislike his work, how do you know so much about it? I would think that you have brought most of the videos yourselves. In which case you can't really make an arguement about how you have no respect for it if you continue to buy their work.
chrisM
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If you would like to discuss what's on the video I would gladly talk to you about it. PM me and ask me about any one of them.
techneeqs
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I agree with tezza. Basicly the question asked was what is your favorite Ellusionist video. If you have a favorite then post what it is - don't post a reply if you don't have a favorite or if you don't like Ellusionist because that is not what this topic is about.

I'd say my favorite was CC2 because it goes good with Daryl's ambitious video. Now I have a ton of moves I can use from both those videos.
Christian Z.
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Man, Brad Christian is HORRIBLE when it comes to crediting. Now I swear what I say is true. When I was still into that Ellusionist stuff I emailed Brad/Team that they should put the videos together like the Street Magic Package and the Ninja Video. I told him this like 2 or 3 months before he did it. And he did do the combination a.k.a. BUNDLE. Anyways he didn't give me a thank you or even credit me on the site for the idea. Now guys I'm serious I told him this idea about 2 or 3 months after I got a video from them and he didn't do anything to me after he did it. Also I got booted from their site because of a bad post about the SHAPESHIFTER card change which was way overpriced.....11.00! And that sleight is easy to learn and you can learn it just by watching. So I disapproved of this and made complaints and got booted. After I did I got another name and recommended to add the Shapeshifter as a bonus for purchasing any trick. And this was about a week after I got booted. So I put it in the post and Brad did it and added it as a bonus to the Raven trick. But no credit was givin to me or even a thank you. Well just wanted to share with you guys how bad he credits people. I got pretty ***** when he didn't even email me back or put me on the site or anything. Just left me hanging with my ideas. Well there you go guys.
Christian
mike stevenson
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Yes Christian, you are right. Brad overprices changes (such as the spin change) and effects (2 card monte) to make a fast buck out of the laymen and "Blaineabes" who want to look "cool."

The thing that really gets me about Brad is how he has turned magic, this fine ancient art, which I LOVE, into something for "gettin' chicks." For example, his invisble deck was publicized by including a routine to help you get a "chick's number." I mean, what is wrong with some people? Is it really worth lowering the art in order to make more money?

Anyway, I don't have a favourite, but the one I hate the least is probably N2.
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