The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Favorite Ellusionist Video (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
marko
View Profile
Inner circle
2110 Posts

Profile of marko
OMG, he does sell 2 Card Monte on his site. He has to know that is Eddie Fetcher's trick, no debate. What a sleazeball. Not only is he selling an effect that isn't his, he doesn't even have the common courtesy to call it by its proper name (or credit Fechter, or do a decent triple-lift). Do the Blainites who go there have any idea that the same effect can be learned from the book Fechter along with many other wondeful effects? Do they even have any idea who Eddie Fechter is? Is this not illegal?
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
JesseMagic
View Profile
Regular user
Oxnard, CA
124 Posts

Profile of JesseMagic
This character Brad is a businessman...after
David Blaine hit the magic scene with his videos he knew that there would be a lot of people interested in magic due to watching those videos. Brad's commercials air during the DB specials to entice laymen to buy them...that's smart. Laymen don't now that the videos are over priced nor do they care who should be credited for the effects...if you type in David Blaine in any search engine, you're bound to get a link to the ellusionist.com web-site...If I had to choose which video I would say N2: Weapons but I wouldn't buy it because of the price... Smile
Clarence
View Profile
Regular user
Singapore, City Central, Scotts Road
146 Posts

Profile of Clarence
Honestly speaking, there are small little things in each of the Ellusionist videos that can be very useful.

My favourite video from Ellusionist has to be Ninja 2.

Ninja 1 has some valuable sleights that are worth learning also. Examples are the Lepaul 3 cut rotation, throw jog and the fan jog.

There are also small little gems that can be found in the Street Magic video.

If you want my honest opinion. The only thing bad about Ellusionist are the prices of their videos, lack of crediting people properly when it comes to effects and sleights and the concept of misleading amateurs about the real art of magic, thus making those "Blaine wannabes" and "amateurs" very stubborn and they wouldn't want to accept change in future.

I own most of the videos from Ellusionist although I kinda left their forums now because the people there don't listen to real world advice.

The reason I left Ellusionist is because I hope the people there can learn things better the hard way.

I didn't leave Ellusionist because I hated it. When Ellusionist gets better or change, I may go back if I'm not too busy. = )

The real world and internet is two different things in reality.

Peace. Smile

Quote:
On 2003-07-01 17:08, JesseMagic wrote:
This character Brad is a buisness man...after
David Blaine hit the magic scene with his videos he knew that there would be a lot of people interested in magic due to watching those videos. Brad's commeracils air during the DB speacails to intise laymen to buy them...thats smart.

In the real world, Brad is smart and he has business sense and determination so now his successful and earning a lot of money from his company Ellusionist and he is growing. Yes I do agree.

But if you are talking about professionals, what Brad is doing is very unethical and not professional at all.

My dad who is a lawyer and consultant once told me that in the real world, nobody gives a crap about you. You either be smart and grab opportunities or you stay poor.

The only thing bad about Brad is that he has made a HUGE mistake of not crediting people as a professional.

IF Brad credits people right from the start, he wouldn't have such a bad reputation in the magic community also. Smile
cyc
View Profile
New user
Montreal
57 Posts

Profile of cyc
Hi,

After reading Clarence's post, it makes me relate Brad to a lawyer. He is like a lawyer who knows that his client is guilty but he is still defending him. You can say that he's just doing business and he's allowed to do that and all. But, as we all know, morally, it's wrong.

Anwyay, that's just my opinion.
jacksorbetter
View Profile
Regular user
Philadelphia
121 Posts

Profile of jacksorbetter
I am not familiar with the Fechter effect for what is now referred to as 2 card monte, but something is definitely strange with the crediting for the effect. Assuming that a magic "effect" consists of a magical "event" and a presentation then I think that UNEXPECTED on page 133 of the Dover edition of Bill Simon's CARD MAGIC FOR AMATEURS AND PROFESSIONALS is actually 2 card monte (or is an "effect" just the method?)

I quote

"Effect: the magician places two Red Aces on the palm of an obliging spectator's outstreched hand. He asks the spectator if he knows whether the the Heart or whether the Diamond is the top ace on his palm. Regardless of the spectator's reply the magician says: "You're wrong," and proceeds to prove it by turning over the two cards in the spectator's hand, displaying two black aces."

The method is extremely similar to the "standard" method now used, also included is the little bit about ignoring the name of the card, just remembering the suit, and also the finisher of "can you tell me which ace is on top, hearts or diamonds."

I think that this source could have been the inspiration for Blaine, Brad et al, rather than the Fechter effect, however, I can't be sure since I am not familiar with the Fechter effect.

However, the extreme similarity is hard to miss.

So, either Fechter stole from Simon (or maybe referenced him?), Simon stole from Fechter (since he did not credit him) both devised their versions independently, they collaborated on the effect, both versions were reworkings/updates of Dr. Daley's last trick, and so on. Who knows?

An example of the utter confusion that results from the attempt to put "credit" on magic.

Many people love to accuse others (Brad among them) of stealing another's work. I really don't think that the situation is as simple as these people make it seem.
Clarence
View Profile
Regular user
Singapore, City Central, Scotts Road
146 Posts

Profile of Clarence
Quote:
On 2003-07-01 22:24, cyc wrote:
Hi,

after reading Clarence's post, it makes me relate Brad to a lawyer. He is like a lawyer who knows that his client is guilty but he is still defending him. You can say that he's just doing business and he's allowed to do that and all. But, as we all know, morally, it's wrong.

Anwyays, that's just my opinion.



This is a very intelligent post cyc.

You could relate Brad to a lawyer.

My father is in the law industry and there are indeed top lawyers who get paid millions by winning cases.

There are lawyers who help people who are guilty as well. They are kinda like crooked lawyers who just wanna earn a lot of money before they grow old, but ultimately they are still doing their job I guess.

But even a crooked lawyer needs good skills and experience to win a case.

As for Brad, Brad has excellent marketing skills. He knows how to market his stuff and that is a VERY important point in the real world.

Marketing techniques and skills is needed in show business if you wanna be successful. You have the skills but if you don't know how to sell yourself, what's the use? See my point?

If you are talking from your heart, it's morally wrong. But if you are talking about business, a lawyer can make his own choice to who he wanna help.. so yeah.

My dad is earning about $100,000 per month I think. He basically helps companies win cases for cheats and bank frauds. My dad was a commercial lawyer but now his more towards a consultant.

Peace. = )

My conclusion still is that Brad should give proper credits.
Joshua Lozoff
View Profile
Inner circle
Chapel Hill, NC
1332 Posts

Profile of Joshua Lozoff
Back to the original topic, I thought both Ninja 1 and the new Ambitious Card video were of very high quality.

If I had to pick one, I'd say the Ambitious Card video. There are moves that I'd never thought to learn before that they do very well and teach very well. I find it extremely helpful.

Ninja 1 put the pass, which many magicians discourage people from learning because it is so hard, within the reach of normal magicians.

I am a full-time professional magician and have been for years.
Joshua Lozoff

joshualozoff.com
chrisM
View Profile
Loyal user
219 Posts

Profile of chrisM
I agree that Ninja 1 is a video that taught the pass well. I think it's a good video for people who are a little more advanced in their magic and want to learn good effects and sleights.
desprado2
View Profile
Regular user
Los Angeles, California
119 Posts

Profile of desprado2
I know and heard all the HOOPLA concerning Brad and his products but I think that the new Ambitious card DVD is a good buy.
"Treat others the way you want to be treated."
steve04424
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of steve04424
Hey all,
Wow has this thread turned hostile! Well since I'm here I might as well add my two cents.

First of all from what I understand, Brad's invisble deck is the very same that can be purchased at a Save-on store under the title MAGIC: COOL CARD TRICKS (Jim Karol ,the world's best card trick). It also comes with an instructional cd-rom too. and it retails for a whopping $5.99. Overcharge? never.

I also noticed that when I was watching Brad teach the pass on crash course 1(maybe ninja) that the reason his is so invisable is based on the fact he is using bridge cards. Is he a small child, who uses bridge cards to tech a move where the card's width plays a large part in its perfection? I will give credit where credit's due. The video quality is good but I must say that the crediting thing is an issue. On the note of crediting someone for a move, think of it this way: you saw the move in let's say Chris Kenner's Totally Out of Control book (a great book I might add) and you credit it to him. If it's not his move then the person who reads your routine and sees the credit (hopefully will look it up) and revert to Kenner's book. Then if Chris did the art good when you get to his book and if it's not his move he will credit someone else, and so on and so on. The worse thing that can happen with crediting is A) show some respect for the people who have made the art what it is
B) a deeper quest for knowledge and a look into books and notes that other wish would have been passed over by people.
and C) the ability to say hey that's a Dai Vernon Triumph routine. Hey...maybe he has some other stuff I might like as well. I think I'll check out a Vernon book. Oh wow he has dozens of routines that are better. I'm so glad I knew who created the orignal effect I liked so much, otherwise if there was no credit I would never have bought this Vernon book with so much valuable information in it.
C'mon guys, you can like who you like and learn from whoever you want but remember without credit and with out perserving our history, the history of magic will be forgotten and God save the person who lets the art of magic be forgotten in the hobbies and games section of Barnes and Noble.
thanks for listining
-sincerly-
stephen c.
Jon Gallagher
View Profile
Veteran user
Elmwood, Illinois
395 Posts

Profile of Jon Gallagher
Magic isn't the only place that has a problem with giving proper credit and people going ballistic when proper credit isn't given. Research is the same way.

When you are writing a paper, whether it's for high school or college English, or a dissertation for a PhD in Physics, proper documentation is a MUST. That means that when you use somone else's idea, you give them credit in a footnote or in a section of the paper that cites sources. Failure to do so will get you in big trouble. I know of at least one college professor who lost a very lucrative job because he took someone else's ideas and tried to pass them off as his own. It's called PLAGIARISM and in most jobs, it will get you fired (at the least), and blackballed from your profession.

I used to be an English teacher and when I had my students write a research paper, I told them I wanted proper documentation (credit) so that I could go look up their source if I wanted to. Many times, I would find what they were writing to be so interesting (or unbelievable), that I would, in fact, go and look up the source.

I have seen Brad's work, and I have to say that I'm not impressed. His teaching style is not good (I'm surprised anyone can learn his coin flourishes or his spin change) given his descriptions. So in keeping with the actual topic of this thread, I would have to say I don't have a favorite.

-Jon

PS.... Hey guys... when you're talking about yourself using the word "I," it's CAPITALIZED!!! (Sorry... the English teacher and Grammar host in me is coming out).
www.jongallagher.com

Hey! I'm finally a Dot Com!
CLJ
View Profile
Loyal user
Singapore
281 Posts

Profile of CLJ
Quote:
On 2003-07-02 21:45, steve04424 wrote:
First of all from what I understand, Brad's invisble deck is the very same that can be purchased at a Save-on store under the title MAGIC: COOL CARD TRICKS (Jim Karol ,the world's best card trick). It also comes with an instructional cd-rom too. and it retails for a whopping $5.99. Overcharge? never.


Sorry for an unproductive post, I really couldn't think of anything to write, but ellusionist has stopped selling those IDs - they're selling standard Bicycle Rider Back design IDs, and at a good price too, I think six or seven bucks for one ID, and a book with information on the ID by Mike Shelley.

By the way, my original name was Christopher Lim on these boards. I cannot remember breaching the rules and regulations of the forum, yet I was banned several weeks after joining the boards. Thus I emailed several of the staff members and the system administrators, over a period of two weeks, and over five emails, and no one has bothered to send a reply back to me. If anyone could look into this matter, I would greatly appreciate it.
"Watch this, you ready now? Watch this, watch, watch, watch, watch now, watch closely, watch this, you watching now? Watch, watch..." - David Blaine
Kronos9326
View Profile
Loyal user
Toronto
229 Posts

Profile of Kronos9326
sigh.... sometimes I wonder whether or not people start these thread on purpose. They must. There is no other reason.

Here are my thoughts on many of the topics I've seen.

On getting chicks:

Sorry to say, but magic generates attention, and if it wasn't for my magic, gettin' chicks, then I wouldn't be married. Plain and simple, the magic got the attention, I did the rest. But the fact remains, there are a lot of us out there, that use magic to be the "interesting" person. We are in a cool profession, face it. A lot of us got involved because it was neat/cool/interesting.

On Credits:

I've said before, that mistakes can't be un-made. If they could, Hitler would have died ealier, Saddam would have been beaten the first time around, and "New Coke" would never have seen the light of day. He's admitted the shortcomings of his decisions, yet for some reason, you guys like to not only beat a dead horse, you go after the entire stable as well. Crediting is important, we all know that, and as each video has been released, the crediting has improved remarkably.

I can actually picture someone saying "What do you think of Brad's coat. It's nice and leathery?", only to have someone reply "It sucks because he doesn't credit!". Seriously now, it seems that's where it's headed.

I am sure that most of you know that I do work for the guy, and that I do have my own opinions.

Look, most of you seem to have a chip on your shoulder for the guy that is so big, it's never going to go away. Fine, if that's what you want to deal with, then let it stay there, but all your constant *****ing is never going to change the past. How about trying to affect the future for a change? Seems to me that might be a little eaier than inventing time travel.

My 2 cents.

Also, I liked Inside Magic. I won't say why, just in case I suddenly become a target.

Have a great day.

David.
dr_tezza
View Profile
New user
21 Posts

Profile of dr_tezza
well said Kronos

i echo your comments exactly
chrisM
View Profile
Loyal user
219 Posts

Profile of chrisM
I also agree with kronos. People wil look at brad and hate everything about him cause he didn't credit. Im actually glad you said that Kronos I didn't think of it. Smile
LeConte
View Profile
Special user
Bay area
830 Posts

Profile of LeConte
Brad needs to explain himself, not you Kronos, then maybe people will shut up about Ellusionist(pardon my strong language). You are the 1363rd member to join the boards, having joined when the forum was still very young, and I see you now have 21 posts. Brad needs to take the time to answer is past crediting/permission issues in his own words himself, not via some employee in Toronto who does not even work with him on a daily basis(if you happen to live in the bay area I apologize). Your role on The Magic Café seems clear to me.

If Brad were to answer peoples charges then what more could they ask for. An articulate, logical and well written post here on the Café might help to clear things up. A post explaining why he apparently profited off other magicians by selling their entire routines without permission from the creators themselves or their families for awhile while he got his business up and running(this is how many people see it) might be in order and realistic. In question the work of Roy Walton, Eddie Fechter, and Paul Curry. To not credit these men in the very least and many others, until the whole community calls you on it, might be another excellent topic for a post by Brad in his own words.If this is not true then let him defend himself with the truth.

I don't really care about Brads claims like these which make me laugh so hard, especially the part about putting some "street" into my "gentleman" tricks(this stuff is not offensive to me, I just find it so funny that I thought some of you might get a chuckle from reading it!):

"Enough talking...You'll never realize the power in Ninja until you do it for your first audience and have to remind them to breathe. Your reputation will spread like lightning, that we guarantee.

P.S. One more thing... if you're want to be good, you have to take charge of your magic. You have to cut out the stuff that's the-same-as-everything-else... get rid of it now.

Even if you're purely a "gentleman's" performer you have to put some street into your tricks to give them impact.

If you miss out on Ninja - if you wait another day.... you've lost the opportunity to step into a new realm and quickly become really, really good with cards.

Also, we're going to raise the price soon... order Ninja now and get the training that will turn you into an severe "shark" with cards, including the unbelievable Spin Change"


Man, from the sound of it I will pick Ninja as my number one Ellusionist product! At least it made me laugh the most reading about it.
Drive Carefully
marko
View Profile
Inner circle
2110 Posts

Profile of marko
LeConte, I agree that that ad description dopey, but your insinuation that Kronos is an employee of Brad's is way off base.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
LeConte
View Profile
Special user
Bay area
830 Posts

Profile of LeConte
Kronos works for Brad, he has stated this himself and part of his job is as a mod on their forums! I do not have a problem with this either, and I'm sure he is a great employee! Kronos works hard to defend Ellusionist with nice logical posts. We just need Brad to step up to the plate and do the same!
Drive Carefully
marko
View Profile
Inner circle
2110 Posts

Profile of marko
I stand corrected then.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
Kronos9326
View Profile
Loyal user
Toronto
229 Posts

Profile of Kronos9326
I really hate doing this, it only adds fuel to a fire that some people insist must burn forever.

You have a right to be upset. However, you then must be upset with EVERY performer who has done this. If memory serves me correctly, there have been SEVERAL magicians who have easy to master teaching tapes out who have not credited, not gotten permission, and done things that in the eyes of the people who seem to think they know better, is wrong.

There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, but surely, that opinion must then apply to everyone, and everything involving magic. Your opinion must not single individuals out, in what seems to be a bias.

The fact remains, what's been done, can't be UNDONE! If history has taught us anything, it's to learn from your mistakes. You don't think that's happening? Sorry, but unless you can't see past your bias, then you too, are living in the past.

Look. Ask yourself this. Why are you hanging on to this, and letting it eat you up. The history of the releases proves that what you people are venting about, is not only valid, but there has been an honest attempt to correct it, so it doesn't happen again.

I've said before, if you put as much energy into something productive, as you do all this senseless posting, then think of the things that could be done. My only complaint, is how long are you guys going to let this continue? At what point do you decide that it's time? Do you realize that if you don't like ellusionist that much, your conintued bashing, only serves to heighten other peoples curiousity. I got an e-mail from someone yesterday who "saw the posts on the magic Café, and decided to see what everything was about...... what a great video...." Thanks for the help.

I post here, for many reasons. First, the Café has people here who are willing to share. Secondly, there's a ton of information here, (though you have to search to find it). Lastly, I like the people. I've got pretty thick skin, and what people I don't know say about me, really doesn't matter in the long run. But do you really think, (and be honest), that if Brad came here to defend himself, that you people would be civil enough to acknowledge him? Probably not. From the strong feelings that I've seen, and the tendency for people to lean towards ridicule, I can't say I blame him for ignoring what goes on in other forums. In all honesty, I should probably do the same. I honestly feel, that at this point, no amount of explaining, posting, writing by him or anyone will change most of your minds.

Now, just out of curiousity, what does my post count or when I joined have to do with anything?

David.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Favorite Ellusionist Video (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.28 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL