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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts 
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I know... I know... I shouldn't have fed the troll. When will I ever learn? But, back on topic... does anyone know if there are statistics that compare the number of performing "magicians" to the number of performing "mentalists?"
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ted french Inner circle Columbus Ohio 1946 Posts
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How do you know sales are down in the industry, and who cares theres more to magic than buying tricks.
P3
practice practice perform. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Hi Michael -
I'll take a shot at answering the following questions that you posed: Quote:
Are there any studies that show the ratio of mentalists to magicians? Now, I'm not talking about those who do a "little" mentalism with their magic. I'm talking about someone who can do an hour of solid mentalism, compared to those who can do an hour of solid magic. Any accurate stats on this? First off, there are no "accurate stats" that I know of. But a look at the membership numbers of some prominent organizations give us a clue. Currently the Society of American Magicians has 6,000 members worldwide. The International Brotherhood of Magicians (I.B.M.) has approximately 15,000 members worldwide. Note that many magicians are members of BOTH organizations - thus the total number of magicians comprising the membership of both organizations would be somewhat less than 21,000 worldwide. I will make a 'guesstimate' of about 15,000. My guess, based on my having been a member of both organizations, is that no more that 10 percent of their members are "professionals." (meaning, for my purposes here, those who earn their livings entirely from performing magic) The Psychic Entertainers Association, on the other hand ,is an international organization of about 250 members (more than half of whom are currently active "professional" mentalists - all of whom either present, or would have no problem in presenting performances of an hour or more in length.) This is an incomplete and admittedly unscientific sampling (especially considering that some PEA members are, or have been, members of the IBM and SAM.) But the ratio of professional mentalists to professional magicians derived from these numbers is, I think, a fairly reasonable estimate of what the ratio would actually be if we included qualified performers who belong to none of the above groups. Based on the above numbers that works out to be about 12 professional magicians to each professional mentalist. Again, this is a completely unscientific 'guesstimate' on my part. But, based on my own knowledge of the business, the 12 to 1 ratio sounds about right. (Again, this is a reference to those who are actually full-time professionals.) Hope that helps at least a bit. Good thoughts, Bob Cassidy |
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dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-21 22:58, magicFreak2 wrote: So you can only do an hour mentalism show without being boring ONLY if you have a "big flashy name"? The phrase I am thinking now would get me banned from the Café, so I will simply skip that and ask, what am I doing wrong then?  |
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Mentalist Sam Regular user 173 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-22 20:49, MichaelCGM wrote: I will argue about supply and demand because that has nothing to do with it. I had a look at your website. You're a magician. Nothing wrong with that, I'm not putting you down for that. But you're also a magician that does everything from kids birthday parties to corporate events and everything in between. Also, you're a mentalist. Everyone is jumping on the mentalism bandwagon, for one reason or another. Here's a challenge for you. Put up a website that has no magic on it. Just mentalism. Try making a living just as a mentalist. Starting out, you will find it's very difficult. Why is that? If you're not established (as a mentalist) you're starting from nothing and you have to now go out and promote something that most people aren't familiar with. The popularity of the TV show means very little and the reason for that is the show doesn't involved The Mentalist as an entertainer, he's a crime-solver. When you say you're a magician, people have at least an idea in their minds as to what they can expect. Say you're a magician and people get it right away. Say you're a mentalist and most people need an explanation. So when someone is looking for entertainment for an event, they may tend to think magician or hypnotist. The concept of mentalist isn't one of the first things to pop-up because most people aren't aware of it. Basically what I'm saying is the grass isn't necessarily greener in the mentalist's yard. But according to your website, you've been working as a mentalist for the past 3 years in at a casino, so you're fees should be huge, you should be getting enough exposure to have more than enough mentalism work and drop the magic shows. If your fees are coming down, because what you feel is a glut in the marketplace, then you have some problems. Again, going back to your site where you promote magic for every possible event. You should be specializing somewhere. You should be the "go to guy" for ..., whatever that specialized area is. Otherwise you are just another magician and all things being equal, the customer may as well shop around for the lowest price. And to be honest, what I see on your site is you are just another magician that doesn't offer anything more unique than the other guy. There are hardly any photos and the ones that are there are very small. You have a tux photo with a zombie ball. You claim you've been on ABC, NBC, CBS, UPN, FOX & WB, yet I couldn't find one video clip or name of a TV show you've been on. Were they national shows? Local shows? The potential client is left to wonder. If I had footage of me on TV, especially national, it would be front and center on my homepage. I doubt there are many working mentalists where you are. You already have a steady gig as a mentalist which is more than a lot of us. You should be the premiere mentalist in your area and that will set you apart and it will not matter who comes along after you because people want to buy you, not just any mentalist or any magician. |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-22 00:04, MrHoudini666 wrote: What did I tell you... Look at the name. 
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-22 00:13, mastermindreader wrote: Says a man named Cassidy.. |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-22 19:34, Rocketeer wrote: Keep'em coming rockets! |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-23 08:29, Mentalist Sam wrote: I will argue about supply and demand because that has nothing to do with it. So, you actually believe that the entertainment business is immune to the law of supply and demand. What, exactly, is your field of expertise and what studies can you cite that support your conclusions? Quote:
If your fees are coming down, because what you feel is a glut in the marketplace, then you have some problems. I didn’t say my fees were coming down. I said that there was a “drop in revenues,” in magic. My fees are the same as usual. Now, my comment about a possible glut in the field of magic (which included an admission that the assessment might not be true) was merely a precursor to the ACTUAL QUESTION… that is, what is the ratio of magicians to mentalists. A question that you chose to ignore, in favor of complaining about my website. I do not and have not claimed to know marketing, and/or the ins and outs of a top quality website. But, since you seem to have the market cornered on the wisdom of magic, mentalism and marketing, please send me a link to your website… so I can learn from your vast experience. |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-22 22:26, mastermindreader wrote: Based on the above numbers that works out to be about 12 professional magicians to each professional mentalist. Thanks, Bob... that helps a great deal. PLUS... if the membership numbers are a fairly accurate reflection of magicians availabable, then the per capita ratios would indicate that there is not a glut in the magic field. Actually, there is only 1 magician per 33,500 people (worldwide) or 1 per 15,400 (in the US). Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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No problem Mike. Actually I had a lot of fun looking up the numbers and trying to make some sense out of them. Thank you!
Bob PS- Now compare the SAM and IBM totals with the number of registered members here at the Café. What conclusions are suggested? |
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Mentalist Sam Regular user 173 Posts
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Michael,
Unless I'm misunderstanding your original post, you are trying to make a case that there is a drop in shows because there are too many magicians out there and that maybe mentalists are getting more shows because there are not as many of them. Again, maybe I am misunderstanding. The point to my posts was that is not the case and in fact EVERYONE is suffering right now. I too am charging my usual fees, but am not getting as many bookings because of the economy, which I posted earlier. I am the only mentalist in my area. I have no competition. I make more money per show than the magicians and hypnotists in my area, but right now I'm sure I'm working less than they are for reasons I explained in my last reply. I'm at the point now of dropping my mentalism show and going back to magic, something I haven't done in over a decade, just because there are so many more opportunities. It's a far easier sell. It's like the old saying about one lawyer in town has no business, but another lawyer opens up and now business is thriving for both. |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-23 16:17, Mentalist Sam wrote: Unless I'm misunderstanding your original post, you are trying to make a case that there is a drop in shows because there are too many magicians out there and that maybe mentalists are getting more shows because there are not as many of them. You are misunderstanding. But your misunderstanding may be my fault, because of my verbose writing style. My ONLY real question was the ratio of magicians to mentalists. Since I do both, I was curious. I mentioned a possible glut in the magic market because I was talking with some other performers who suggested it. To me, it made sense, since magic bookings are off this year, but my mentalism is still selling well. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-22 21:08, ted french wrote: Who said anything about magic trick sales? |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-23 15:54, mastermindreader wrote: Now compare the SAM and IBM totals with the number of registered members here at the Café. What conclusions are suggested? Good observation, Bob. I used to run a Christian Forum, for theological debate and just plain chat. Having done so, I remember that there were a lot of people who registered, but only a small percentage who posted (the old lurkers 'n' such). So, a good question might be, "How many registered Café members actually post to the forum?" Maybe management could dig up those stats. On the other hand, it would be difficult to determine how many join just to appease their curiosity from time to time; how many register but do not actually perform; how many register, then stop coming back (do memberships get deleted after a period of non-use), etc., etc. Paid membership in certain groups (IBM, SAM, et al) might be a better indicator of usable stats than non-paid membership in an on-line BB system. Whadayathink? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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That's a reasonable interpretation.
If you look at the membership list here and sort it by number of posts you'll see something very interesting. Best- Bob |
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Posted: Jul 23, 2010 12:53 am 
Laus Deo!
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