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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Why the world needs WikiLeaks (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-07-27 23:29, MagicSanta wrote:
Tommy, the Western militaries are so sweet now it is amazing. Kill anyone in sight, right....


Some folks are lactose intolerant.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
MagicSanta
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I never met one myself...
Woland
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From an article by Richard Fernandez (http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2010/07/28/murphy-rides-again/#more-9887):

"The news came as Wikileaks founder Julian Assange expressed fears he could be arrested. The Telegraph says he “has been warned by ‘inside sources in the White House’ not to return to the US as he could be arrested.”

"He’s had more warning than the individuals in Afghanistan who will more than likely be identified by al-Qaeda support cells in Western Europe or the Middle East who will pore through the Wikileaks documents. The names of the traitors to radical Islam will be duly transmitted to the avengers who will then go out severally into the night to on their missions of revenge. Recently Radio Netherlands described what Afghans who are suspected by the Taliban can expect to endure. The Taliban have cut off the hands of construction workers who build government-funded projects; sent a suicide car bomb against a district chief believed to have been working with US special forces. Death in many forms will be their lot. One informant Radio Netherlands described “holds a thick yellow sheet tightly around his face” to preserve his anonymity. Now it turns out he shouldn’t have bothered. If the London Times is right, his name might be one of the several hundred the British reporter has found in just a few hours.

"Yet the dead are the lucky ones. The more unfortunate may wind up in a torture chamber similar to one found by Coldstream Guards. It features such amenties as chains to hang prisoners from walls. Not that the inmates would want to walk on the floor: that features broken glass. And there is limb amputation, kneecapping with an electric drill, eye gouging, bone-breaking or ritual rape to smash the will. Where the offender is not himself available punishment will be visited on his relatives.

"When Julian Assange released these documents he assured the public that it had been carefully reviewed to avoid putting people at risk. He said it with the greatest apparent confidence. Now it emerges that either he didn’t know how to avoid putting innocents in the line of fire or didn’t care to. But competence is not required to sit in judgment of others. Not today. All it really takes is enough self-righteousness to impose your amateurish viewpoint on the world because on the theory that nobody else has ever been as clever as you. We are always the people we’ve been waiting for."

*****

The Taliban would execute everyone who reads this list for sorcery. Yet those who are in the front lines, defending your lives and your lifestyles from barbaric savagery, are slandered and disparaged. As in the comment attributed variously to Eric Blair and Winston Churchill, ""We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

May God keep our protectors safe, in turn.

Woland
landmark
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The US forces are doing nothing in Afghanistan but creating more corruption, misery, and death. The lives and billions being spent are not keeping anyone safer either here at home or abroad. It is creating more terrorism abroad and economic collapse here. This is not the fault of the average soldier, who is not responsible for policy.

By publicizing the relationship between the Pakistani ISI, which funds the Taliban, and the CIA, the leaked papers make clear that the US is playing both sides.

The concern about some possible future informant deaths would be more convincing if there were concern about the thousands of civilians already killed by US bombs and soldiers. Is there a number on that? Does the US government care? Even about its own? The case of Pat Tillman is instructive, as was Jessica Lynch's in Iraq. No, the lying will go on and on unless there are whistleblowers in the system. That is why this and previous admins are/were so bent on punishing them: those drunk with power and greed can't allow others to tell the truth about it.

But even then, there will be many who can't bear to look at the elephant in the room.
tommy
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My instinct tells me there is something fishy about all of this.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
RS1963
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It really amazes me how some people seem to be glad a person or persons can steal classified documents and have them spread around for all the world to see. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some are singing these moron's praises over it. Even here in the U.S. But I am.
tommy
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How do you know they were stolen? Disinformation is as valid a tactic in war as it is in magic.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
RS1963
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Quote:
On 2010-07-28 09:07, tommy wrote:
How do you know they were stolen? Disinformation is as valid a tactic in war as it is in magic.


Whatever.
Woland
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Landmark,

Even CNN has reported that the Taliban has killed at least 10 more times the number of civilians as may have been killed by Coalition forces.
RS1963
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Quote:
On 2010-07-28 09:32, Woland wrote:
Landmark,

Even CNN has reported that the Taliban has killed at least 10 more times the number of civilians as may have been killed by Coalition forces.


People that follow and believe in conspiracy theories won't buy that however no matter how much very factual proof is shown to them.
Magnus Eisengrim
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For those interested in reliable data,
Here is the April 2010 ANSO (Afghanistan NGO Safety Office) report.

Here is a more general site dealing with facts and figures from the Afghanistan conflict, maintained by Simon Fraser University.

From the Simon Fraser site, here is a graph of attributions of civilian casualities in Afghanistan, January to June 2010.

Image


John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
RS1963
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Thank you John. It's the ones with the level headed thinking that know that would be the truth of what is being done in the way of deaths and who is responsible for the the attacks.
tommy
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So that’s alright then. So long as we are not murdering so many children as the terrorist are according to us.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-07-28 12:50, RS1963 wrote:
Thank you John. It's the ones with the level headed thinking that know that would be the truth of what is being done in the way of deaths and who is responsible for the the attacks.


But we should still be wary of the argument: "they are worse so we are excused."

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Markymark
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...And Afghan people switch to supporting the Taliban when their citizens die.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
tommy
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Yes but at least they will be better equipped to fight us when we have finished training and arming the Afghan Army.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
MagicSanta
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Well, I can't say I'm shocked since it is a couple of the usual suspects who believe the US is the great Satan. If the US and UN pulled out they would just say that the US set up the slaughter that would take place so it is a no win.

Simply put the facts are that the documents were stolen, there is no question when it comes to that issue, anyone arguing otherwise is either an idiot or just wants to argue. Secondly there will be individuals who are in harms way and likely will be subjected to harm or death because of these documents. Not proven yet but as I said, likely, then the theft becomes, IMO, murder. The US has taken extraordinary efforts to avoid civilian casualties, usually they result from flat out errors or due to targets hiding among the civilians. The Taliban and their allies have shown no concern what so ever for their own people or for symbols of their religion while an American who's round hits the same building they blew up is an evil hate monger.

I'd say it is a shame but I realize that there were Brits and Americans that supported the Nazis too.
Magnus Eisengrim
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So which leaded documents are getting the most play where you live? In Canada, attention is focused on a document that claims that certain soldier combat deaths were caused by friendly fire and were not reported as such. Needless to say, families of the deceased soldiers are feeling victimized and military officials are flatly contradicting the leaded documents.

I wonder what sort of quality control WikiLeaks can provide.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
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I have not looked into the documents at all.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-07-28 15:55, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
So which leaded documents are getting the most play where you live? In Canada, attention is focused on a document that claims that certain soldier combat deaths were caused by friendly fire and were not reported as such. Needless to say, families of the deceased soldiers are feeling victimized and military officials are flatly contradicting the leaded documents.

I wonder what sort of quality control WikiLeaks can provide.

John


Made the same typo twice: "leaded" should, of course, be "leaked".
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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