The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Why the world needs WikiLeaks (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4
RS1963
View Profile
Inner circle
2720 Posts

Profile of RS1963
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 15:45, MagicSanta wrote:
Well, I can't say I'm shocked since it is a couple of the usual suspects who believe the US is the great Satan. If the US and UN pulled out they would just say that the US set up the slaughter that would take place so it is a no win.

Simply put the facts are that the documents were stolen, there is no question when it comes to that issue, anyone arguing otherwise is either an idiot or just wants to argue. Secondly there will be individuals who are in harms way and likely will be subjected to harm or death because of these documents. Not proven yet but as I said, likely, then the theft becomes, IMO, murder. The US has taken extraordinary efforts to avoid civilian casualties, usually they result from flat out errors or due to targets hiding among the civilians. The Taliban and their allies have shown no concern what so ever for their own people or for symbols of their religion while an American who's round hits the same building they blew up is an evil hate monger.

I'd say it is a shame but I realize that there were Brits and Americans that supported the Nazis too.


On this topic you and I seem to really agree on all the points.

John I think you are trying to put words into My mouth. When we have made mistakes or some of our troops have done something that we shouldn't do and has caused innocent lives to be lost. Did I say it makes it right? Of course it doesn't make it right. All is not fair in love and war. Nothing is going to go how everyone wants it to go. Yes when we have done wrong I think those involved should be punished. That's a given.

The facts are the Taliban, the insurgents and whoever else sides with them and are involved with them cause the death of the majority of the innocent bystanders. It's not The U.S. or it's allies that are causing the majority of the bystanders injuries or deaths pure and simple.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16262 Posts

Profile of tommy
Julius Caesar’s principle of divide et impera, “divide and rule.”

Bribe one set of natives (“friendlies”) to fight their enemies.

In the process civilians get killed.

Don't blame me said Julius Caesar.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
RS1963
View Profile
Inner circle
2720 Posts

Profile of RS1963
John I misread your response to me wrong You were not trying to put words into My mouth sorry.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27157 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Interesting graph. "blame" ? And when you change "insurgent" to "patriot" or "those who wish autonomous rule" it's even stranger. Labels tell more about the person applying the label than the thing being labeled. Consider this text: Darn crazy malcontent crown subjects going writing hogwash and calling themselves independent - in the Kings English then going and killing folks with tar and feathers... okay you can call them insurgents if you please.

Please, let's stay out of polarizing politics. Wikileaks is intended as a place where folks who see something bad happening can post evidence. The rest is both reaction(ary) and telling IMHO.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 19:57, RS1963 wrote:
John I misread your response to me wrong You were not trying to put words into My mouth sorry.


Cool no problems.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 09:59, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
For those interested in reliable data,
Here is the April 2010 ANSO (Afghanistan NGO Safety Office) report.

Here is a more general site dealing with facts and figures from the Afghanistan conflict, maintained by Simon Fraser University.

From the Simon Fraser site, here is a graph of attributions of civilian casualities in Afghanistan, January to June 2010.

Image


John

Thanks for the figures from the site, John.

So according to ANSO, approximately 1/3 of civilian deaths were due to the US and its allies. It's interesting that Criminals and Private Security Firms are lumped together. (BTW that graphic is not in either of the two links posted near it.)

Charlie Manson killed fewer, maybe he finally deserves a pass?

As for outrage about the criminal leaks, should have Pat Tilman's family just shut-up?

I wonder is Scooter Libby sharing that outrage too?

To find out more about why the US is in Afghanistan try Googling UNOCAL as a start.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 19:33, tommy wrote:
Julius Caesar’s principle of divide et impera, “divide and rule.”

Bribe one set of natives (“friendlies”) to fight their enemies.

In the process civilians get killed.

Don't blame me said Julius Caesar.


Agreed. There's really no other way to interpret the documents about the Pakistani Intelligence Services. Those documents are the most telling IMO, so of course least discussed as to their implications, at least in the US media.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 20:59, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 09:59, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
For those interested in reliable data,
Here is the April 2010 ANSO (Afghanistan NGO Safety Office) report.

Here is a more general site dealing with facts and figures from the Afghanistan conflict, maintained by Simon Fraser University.

From the Simon Fraser site, here is a graph of attributions of civilian casualities in Afghanistan, January to June 2010.

Image


John

Thanks for the figures from the site, John.


My pleasure.

Quote:
So according to ANSO, approximately 1/3 of civilian deaths were due to the US and its allies.


Looks like 1/5 to me. Still a large number.

Quote:
It's interesting that Criminals and Private Security Firms are lumped together. (BTW that graphic is not in either of the two links posted near it.)


It's from the second link, just past the first screenfull.


John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
View Profile
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5845 Posts

Profile of MagicSanta
Don't worry, when we pull out the number for the insurgents, who I guess will then be refered to as 'people pruners' will fill the void....and that's okay I guess.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27157 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 21:05, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 19:33, tommy wrote:
Julius Caesar’s principle of divide et impera, “divide and rule.”

Bribe one set of natives (“friendlies”) to fight their enemies.

In the process civilians get killed.

Don't blame me said Julius Caesar.


Agreed. There's really no other way to interpret the documents about the Pakistani Intelligence Services. Those documents are the most telling IMO, so of course least discussed as to their implications, at least in the US media.


Consider why there was a library at Alexandria. And if you can go back a bit further - what was going in in Minos and taught at Labyrinth. No bull. But quite a thread if you follow it back.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 21:22, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 20:59, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 09:59, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
For those interested in reliable data,
Here is the April 2010 ANSO (Afghanistan NGO Safety Office) report.

Here is a more general site dealing with facts and figures from the Afghanistan conflict, maintained by Simon Fraser University.

From the Simon Fraser site, here is a graph of attributions of civilian casualities in Afghanistan, January to June 2010.

Image


John

Thanks for the figures from the site, John.


My pleasure.

Quote:
So according to ANSO, approximately 1/3 of civilian deaths were due to the US and its allies.


Looks like 1/5 to me. Still a large number.

Quote:
It's interesting that Criminals and Private Security Firms are lumped together. (BTW that graphic is not in either of the two links posted near it.)


It's from the second link, just past the first screenfull.


John

I added 20(US) +10(US ally) + 3(half of the criminal and private security firm figure)

When I referred to the missing reference for the graphic, I was talking about the adjacent links to the graphic on the website itelf. Going back and downloading the website's embedded adjacent references, there was no graphic of that kind. (Not your fault, it was ACM's oversight)
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-07-29 00:01, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 21:05, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-28 19:33, tommy wrote:
Julius Caesar’s principle of divide et impera, “divide and rule.”

Bribe one set of natives (“friendlies”) to fight their enemies.

In the process civilians get killed.

Don't blame me said Julius Caesar.


Agreed. There's really no other way to interpret the documents about the Pakistani Intelligence Services. Those documents are the most telling IMO, so of course least discussed as to their implications, at least in the US media.


Consider why there was a library at Alexandria. And if you can go back a bit further - what was going in in Minos and taught at Labyrinth. No bull. But quite a thread if you follow it back.

Nice, Jon.
In this case the thread may be even more tangled than it appears; the timing of this leak may be deliberate--or not.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6761 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On 2010-07-27 01:31, landmark wrote:
Huge difference between a spy and a whistleblower. At great risk to himself Assange leaked information about the criminal actions of the US to the US public.

If you think it's old news, then there's no harm done; if it's new to you, then you should be demanding that those Americans responsible for the war crimes should spend the remaining days in a good ol' Federal prison where they can write letters on behalf of people who will be out before them, like Chuck Manson.

This is in poor taste. If he was my pal I would call him chuck. He's not- he is an evil man who ordered the slaughter of innocents. So his name is not Chuck- its not Charlie or even Charles. He's just Manson. I can guarantee the families of the victims have never called him Chuck- nor should we.
MagicSanta
View Profile
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5845 Posts

Profile of MagicSanta
Many years ago he was called Chuck Manson, before that Charlie, now Charles. I'm waiting for them to call him Chip.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-07-29 11:03, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-07-27 01:31, landmark wrote:
Huge difference between a spy and a whistleblower. At great risk to himself Assange leaked information about the criminal actions of the US to the US public.

If you think it's old news, then there's no harm done; if it's new to you, then you should be demanding that those Americans responsible for the war crimes should spend the remaining days in a good ol' Federal prison where they can write letters on behalf of people who will be out before them, like Chuck Manson.

This is in poor taste. If he was my pal I would call him chuck. He's not- he is an evil man who ordered the slaughter of innocents. So his name is not Chuck- its not Charlie or even Charles. He's just Manson. I can guarantee the families of the victims have never called him Chuck- nor should we.

Read the post that this one was referencing.
RS1963
View Profile
Inner circle
2720 Posts

Profile of RS1963
Chuck Asshat Mental Midget Scum Sucking Pig Moron Manson works very well.

B.T.W. ass is not a bad word it is a proper name for a donkey. I wanted to say that before the p.c. squad showed up.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16262 Posts

Profile of tommy
WikiLeaks Julian Assange has just been framed for rape by the CIA. So my sources at the poker table tell me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
SOP in this kind of thing. But yeah, the CIA and Pentagon intelligence are a bunch of scumbags.*

*Disclaimer: Many of those who work for the CIA are wonderful people who read stories to their rosy-cheeked children at night, contribute to the United Way, and pitch in at the neighborhood block party. At a bar, they buy drinks for their friends and beat up those who look at your little woman the wrong way. It's only the policies that they and their superiors enforce and pursue that are evil and twisted.

The wonderful thing about the charge against Assange is that the rape was supposedly committed just last week. Yes, a guy who knows the eyes of the world are on him and several countries have a manhunt out for him commits rape. I don't think so. The real message of course is not so much for Assange, but for other whistleblowers that no matter how ridiculous, we're going to **** up your life and harass you for telling any secrets that make us look bad.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Breaking news:
The charges against Assange have been withdrawn.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100821/ap_o......ikileaks
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16262 Posts

Profile of tommy
...After Tommy and Landmark exposed the CIA plot. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Why the world needs WikiLeaks (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL