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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts 
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Re: Change of Name: Does it Increase Business?
In another thread, ie. "Why is it that only a small section of society likes magic?" Eli The Illuionist posted the below very interesting comments, that deserve a new thread and discussion. Eli stated, he changed his wording leaving out Magic and Magician substituting the word Illusionist and he doubled his business. I believe there is truth in this because, Children Entertainers who develop theme shows and focus on marketing that theme do very well. The same with Story Tellers, and Library shows. Have you too found this to be true? What name/theme/other have you use that focus on something different but you still use magic and your business increased? -Dennis Quote: On 2010-07-30 02:59, EliTheIllusionist wrote related to name change from "Magician vs Illusionist":
Dennis Michael
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts
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"Magicians" are always going to have a tough time earning respect and high dollars. Why? Since we are kids, we are taught (in cartoons and popular culture) that magicians are bumbling buffoons who perform at birthday parties to the ridicule of our audiences. Who would pay a good dollar for someone like that?
Try this: don't title yourself. Why can't you just be your name? Why can't you just be who you are and leave it as that? After all, even if they try their hardest, no one I compete with will ever be able to be a "Scott Burton". You then become one-of-a-kind and irreplaceable. When they want a "Scott Burton", they have no choice but to come to me. "Magicians" can be found everywhere and can be price-shopped. Titles don't help us much anyway (they just open us up to value judgments based on a person's previous experiences). There are better ways to communicate the value we bring to a client. |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts
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I should note that, as per my signature here, I do use some broad terms. Business professional, author, speaker, entertainer, coach, entrepreneur, athlete, self-promotions expert, etc. I consider these more elements of what I do rather than a specific title.
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MikeClay Special user Atlanta GA 762 Posts
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As a balloon guy I get it worse than a magician...
my get around.. I'm a "Family Friendly Entertainer" This is huge to me as I'm better at entertaining adults than small kids.. and all my local entertainer friends are all about me going to kidabra and starting a group and so on... (I don't have a issue with these things, I'm just not a kids performer)but I do provide Family Friendly Entertainment
its ok.. balloon dogs don't bite
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7596 Posts
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The late John Cooper posted several times on the Café, with the arguement that he preferred the term "Entertainer" over "Magician." He said that there was less resistance when asking for more money. And he also clarified that because he used comedy, storytelling, puppets, magic, etc. in his presentations, he really was a variety entertainer.
I had (still have) a lot of respect for his opinions. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3281 Posts
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I too like the word Entertainer. Why would you hire a magician when you can hire someone that does magic plus a whole lot more?
The only problem is in the search for a magician people will look for a magician. Most don't search for general entertainers, they narrow it to magician, storyteller, juggler, balloons, etc. So you can't completely do away with the magic and not miss magic show opportunities. I can't see anyone wanting, or ever searching for, an "illusionist" for a children's show. They have no idea what that is other than someone who does Copperfield type shows. Or someone just trying to copy him. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My eBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21957 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-30 06:35, Scott Burton wrote: WHAT? The problem with this idea is that you should never leave the perception of you and what you do to someone else.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts
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Yes "WORDS" do have power and for each of us words are often 'anchored' (consciously as well as unconsciously) to various things including, congruency of others, spaced repetition, life experience and what is 'taught & caught’ over the years, but the good news is, these things (our beliefs & perceptions included) CAN be re-engineered, re-educated and new perceptions CAN be generated, minds changed with the proper education, marketing… etc
Sorry… in a rush, out the door. I just wanted to comment real quick. THANKS! Dean <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) 
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10725 Posts
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At one time I booked nearly a dozen "Magic Entertainers" through my agency. Before adding a particular type of entertainer (comedians, bands, novelty, mentalists, hypnotists, DJs, characturists, and of course magic) we did extensive public research, focus group studies, man on the street interviews, one on one surveys, polls and more to determine perceptions, interests, buying habits and marketability of something before we ever consider investing in adding something to our roster. We usually never would accept research of less than 10,000 participants. This always proved very helpful and often surprising results came from this process which I always felt gave us an edge in the marketplace and over any competition.
Pertaining to magic the findings were quite interesting. We were extremely interested in the perceptions of the public as this is what determines and leads to their buying habits. In the words of the great Bruce Bernstien, Perception Is Everything. Our finding were that the lay public doesn't distinguish between the different types of magic as we in the business do - closeup, platform, cabaret, or styles or specialties such as coins cards, etc. To them everything came down to two categories - Magician (any kind of magic tricks - silks, rings, animals, cards, coins, etc. performed in a closeup, strolling or intimate performance area setting) or Illusions (a stage performance with larger prop effects such as sawing someone in half, making someone disappear, escapes, etc. often with a female assistant. They perceive the Illusion or stage-type performance as much greater value and worth. Also the results showed largely that they also considered the Illusionist to be "a professional" and much more experienced. I've often seen people here complain that guests at their performances are amazed to learn that you do this full-time or that you've been doing this for 15 years, and so on. Yet almost all of the public perceived and easily accepted the Illusionist to be a professional entertainer. Based on these results we'd properly market "magicians" for kids parties, scouts and lower budgeted events, and "Illusionists" (Magical Illusionist) for our festival, corporate and school markets (Motivational Illusionist). We also made our Illusionists available for the kids and family parties but at a very premium price which worked well for the higher end private market such as Bar/Bat Mitzvahs in which we could usually sell both services. I thought some here would find this interesting. The industry trends also must be followed closely as some things do change. 15 years ago a stage hypnotist or a mentalist was a harder sell, where today these are much more popular and even command the top dollar at some of these events and also appeal to markets that wouldn't even consider them before. Also trends like Mindfreak, America's Got Talent, etc. have a direct affect on how a generation perceives things. To the newer generation Angel-type stunts are what they consider to be "real" magic, as standard magic tricks are small time potatoes (and therefore only justify a much smaller price). Just my opinion. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3281 Posts
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An excellent opinion Mindpro, I think.
People out in the real world don't always think like we want them to. Or should I say, they don't over think things as much as we do. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My eBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains |
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EliTheIllusionist Regular user York, PA 191 Posts
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Wow. Didn't think my comment would spark a new topic.
It's really too bad. The word "magician" is kind of like saying "cook" vs "chef" (for illusionist). It was fine titling myself as a magician until I graduated high school. But shortly after, I focused on looking to tap into professional and corporate markets, but that *** title was holding me back. Overall, changing my title was just an experiment at first. After I noticed its results, I was blown away. I think people assume illusionists are supremely geared to mold their performances to present to adults; like higher up the totem pole. I still haven't heard if anyone else has tried anything like this. -E |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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It all depends on how good you are. If you make the event super memorable, the audience will remember you no matter what your name is. For example if person "A" used "conjurer", and if he was super good, they would remember him more than a average person using "magician".
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10725 Posts
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Yes, but you have to get the booking first. What I was referring to is about impressions and perceptions that the client has when seeking, shopping or considering hiring entertainment. They have to decide to book you before you ever get your chance at bat to prove your performance.
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MT Veteran user 312 Posts
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This is very interesting to me because here in California I don't think that magic or magician carries that negative association. It is always warmly received when I say that I do magic. Everyone wants to see something cool. I think this might have to do with local, where you live. It's gonna be different from place to place.
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12057 Posts
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I don't promote much as a magician but it seems to always fall back on that title when the booker books the event. No matter what you do or call yourself, laymen will see it as magic.
From the cooler, Decomp
ClICK HERE for HOW TO MAKE TRANSITION FROM MAGICIAN TO MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER WORLD NEW BOOK!
Click here for NEW PROMO TRAILER! 90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation! Click here for Magicians Austin Mentalist Performance https://www.facebook.com/AustinMagicians https://www.speakermatch.com/profile/gianicano/ Magicians Company Entertainers in Dallas, TX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sHW_zVuSc https://about.me/motivationalpublicspeaker |
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BaoHoang Regular user Montreal, Canada 140 Posts
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I really haven't thought about this! Now I'm thinking about changing my title but I don't do illusions. However, I do love to do very visual close up magic with a lot of sleight of hand. Do you think that changing my title to prestidigitator will have the same effect as illusionist?
Montreal Magician Bao
www.baomagic.com |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22796 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-08-10 23:37, BaoHoang wrote: Let me say that a lot of new members use the word illusion and ask a question about a close-up trick. They are constantly moving comments from the Grand Illusion section because the new member think magic is illusion. That is how they see the word. Years ago, I put Prestidigitator on my business card, it ment nothing to the general public. Make sure you spell it correctly, as the other spelling means juggler. Interesting topic, you could always do one illusion like the Abbott's Arrow Head Illusionette. And then you could calm your thinking. |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12057 Posts
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If you want business, you better consider what Mr Google thinks first.
Decomp
ClICK HERE for HOW TO MAKE TRANSITION FROM MAGICIAN TO MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER WORLD NEW BOOK!
Click here for NEW PROMO TRAILER! 90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation! Click here for Magicians Austin Mentalist Performance https://www.facebook.com/AustinMagicians https://www.speakermatch.com/profile/gianicano/ Magicians Company Entertainers in Dallas, TX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sHW_zVuSc https://about.me/motivationalpublicspeaker |
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RiotStrike New user I've cemented 39 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-30 16:30, Dannydoyle wrote: Amen. Though "first impressions are everything" still holds water, it's up to you to adamantly express to a potential client that you don't fall into a stereotype. I've often said, "I am a magician. While I do perform for birthday parties if that's the request, I prefer a more mature audience so I can interact and utilize more intelligent material." One time, just for a laugh, I quoted Lord of the Rings (Gandalf): "Do not take me as some fool, or conjuror of cheap tricks!" |
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MichaelDouglas Special user Portland, Oregon 766 Posts
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Mindpro, I really appreciate your post. This falls in line with my fees. Repeating several 5 minute table routines for a couple of hours takes less effort than a hour long stage ILLUSION show. As such I price them differently. For simplicity sake, I do use the title Magician.
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Posted: Jul 30, 2010 09:24 am 
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