I was just wondering what advantages one might have using a chop cup over a regular one cup routine. I have played around with my one cup routine and I like it very much. I watched a tape of myself doing it and even surprised myself once or twice. After watching some chop cup routines on-line, however, I came to find myself wondering if there were any reason to choose a regular cup over a chop cup.

If any one has any insiht to offer, it would be greatly appreciated

Alex

SEARCH YOU TUBE and watch Larry Jennings to a GREAT non-gimmicked one cup routine. Then look for Paul Daniels doing a great chop cup routine.

It doesn't matter which you use as long as it works and entertains.

The only advantage of a regular cup over a chop cup is that you aren't limited by the mechanics of the props. The advantage of the chop cup over the regular cup is that there are things that you can do more cleanly with the chop cup.

In a slightly different view, any cup is just an artificial hand -- a place to hold, conceal or reveal a small object. You have two hands, a pocket/pouch and a cup. Many wonderful effects can be performed based on having the audience think a ball is one place when it is actually in another, having more or fewer balls than known, or changing the nature of the ball undetected. The key is that a cup can change the timing of the Reveal of the magic in ways the hands alone cannot.

A Chop Cup (or other gimmicked retention method)allows a ball to "hide" or "idle" while other effects are being performed. You can choose when the Reveal will occur more easily than by Sleights alone (or "cleanly" as Bill offers). Yet, almost all of the desired end results can be accomplished without the "gaff advantage," thus allowing for the use of natural/common containers as cups and "found" objects as balls.

So, I would suggest learning all of the effects possible with the four containers available. Then consider those requiring a gaffed cup. Now create several perfected routines using the effects with the greatest audience impact -- a Chop Cup may or may not be included, that choice comming from personal experience.

Then you will be ready to add a fifth "Cup" -- the spectator's hand for the greatest magic of all. Here again, the use of a gaffed cup may have advantages and disadvantages.

I enjoy using the Chop cup very much but I do enjoy being able to do pretty much the same thing with any cup. As always... Bill sums it up very eloquently.

Bill
I am not sure I get what you mean about being limited by the mechanics of the props. Can't you do the same thing with a chop cup that you could do with a regular cup?

Pete
Thanks for the tip on those videos, they were both great examples of how either type of cup can be used as long as the routine is entertaining!

Funsway
That is a great way to look at it:)

Hi Alex, welcome to the Café.

We would love to see the routine you have on tape.

This is just my opinion but I would rather use a chop cup to do a chop cup like routine than just an ordinary cup. If I were to do something with an ordinary cup I would rather do a cups and balls routine.

Here is the routine I do with a chop dice cup (David Roth’s Routine).

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennbishopchopcup.wmv

There are other great performers that used the chop cup - Chop Chop, Paul Daniels, Larry Jennings, Ron Wilson, Don Alan, Ken Brooke and in my opinion they have all brought something to the table on the subject of the chop cup.

Good luck!

Cheers!

Thanks for the welcome Tim! I am currently working on polishing up my routine before I post it on-line. There are still a few kinks to work out, but I have even surprised myself watch the playback of my practice sessions!

Because this is an open forum, I can't go into details about what I mean. When you have 50 posts, you will have access to the Secret Sessions, and then I can explain more clearly what I mean.

However, to a great degree, the limitations are mental, not physical.

I think I see what you mean Bill. It's not an effect all by itself but a tool to help clean things up.

Hey Alex.

My suggestion would be the same if a magician wants to learn card or coin magic and in my opinion it works with cup magic. And that suggestion would be is to get a good foundation of the technical side of magic - read books like the Tarbell course, the Magic Digest, The Mark Wilson Course in Magic.

Go to the public library and see what they have on magic. Having a good technical background of the craft might help - not in just cups and balls magic but in a lot of other areas of magic.

Good luck.

Just a few thoughts and opinion that came to mind when I read this thread.

Cheers!

Thank you bish. I have both Tarbell and the Mark Wilson course and learned those routines long ago. I am looking to create something more interesting, something that I can call my own.

For one cup routines, the Crandall routine in Tarbell 6 is the starting point. Not many people actually do this routine any more. The Don Alan Chop Cup routine, specifically the version published by Ron Bauer, is the next book to refer to.

If you can find a copy of the original Al Wheatley Chop Cup routine, that's a good source, as well.

The reason I recommend these routines is that they are really the basis of one cup work.

Also look at the Roy Benson Bowl routine.

Oh, you are right about what I was referring to as the difference between the chop cup and a non-gaffed cup.