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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Knots and loops » » Accused but I had proof of innocence (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

magicians
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I attended a good friends lecture in late 2008 and he showed a rope on silk effect. In june of 2009 I had published my One-man parade in Linking and upon my friends reading it, he accused me of not giving him credit for it. He said that I was inspired by his lecture on it.
I informed him that I had this in my repertoire and my lecture for years, but he still insisted that I slighted him by not mentioning him in the Parade.

Thank goodness for Themagiccafe. I searched back in the archives and found a comment I had made in Nov. 2007 discussing my method of the effect. This small comment proved positive that my method was well established at least a year (actually) or more prior to the "inspiration" of the lecture.

My post:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5319058

I only bring this up, because at the time of my parade, this lecturer had accused me and discussed his claim with many friends. He, however, never bothered to ask me.

The moral of this is, that every little claim or comment you make on the Café, no matter how self-serving, is important. I constantly talk of my past inventions and techniques and in this case the comment predates the claim.

Thanks for your support.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
KOTAH
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Ian, every word you say is true. THe bulk of my 'proof' resides in the pages of my books on rope magic, and in Parades in back issues of MUM and the LR.

ie. a method of doing the walking knot which uses none of the standard gimmicks,

Rope only and all may be given as a memento of the performance if you so desire.

THe essence of it lies in a ploy credited to Melborne christopher.
magicians
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The effect itself has been around for a while. The Lecturer does not use a one-handed version, he does the "classic" which used to be in a direction sheet from the 70's by ez-magic, where you use two hands to tie a knot and then have a silk appear in the knot.
In my version, I am doing a one-handed knot (which in itself is tricky). I then have the silk appear in the knot as the one-handed is done. I can't claim the knot, nor a silk on rope, but I can claim that combo.
I actually do not know where in magic books the original silk in square knot method came from (maybe Marconick, Tarbell, Hugard?), can anyone else help?
I learned the one handed knot from either a Bill Tarr book, or Phil Wilarth lecture.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
funsway
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Your fault Ian ;-) for using "Non-derivative Innovation" rather than sticking to boring "top down" fiddling with someone else's effect. I applaud your creativity -- and any nay-sayer should have to prove his earlier date, not the other way around. An accuser has the burdon of proof, and "publication date" is only one source.

What ever happened to a "testamony of two men?"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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According to Spellbinder:
There is a visible Silk on Rope Appearance" in the Stewart James "Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks", but the inventor named is Glenn Gravatt. Not Dutch at all. The rope is picked up and the silk suddenly appears in the center. I don't have a date, but it is probably the oldest.

Marconick has a variation of that in which the silk appears inside a knot that you tie in the rope, found as "Silk in Knot" in his book "Marconick's Original Magic" dated 1967.

The Silk IN the knot is the one I was "inspired by".

That 1967 date is important, because the "lecturer" started lecturing in 1970. Oh, and the effect he was teaching was the standard Marconick version. IT wasn't even his. I had only admired it, because of his total routine. He misunderstood my appreciation with "being inspired". In actuality, I had experimented with many knots and added the silk appearance to the one-handed. As well as the OMAK knot.

The one-handed version took it out of the hands of the amateur. Not only did you make a knot with one hand, but the silk appeared.

So, if you do "the fastest knot effect", the silk in the knot would apply as well.
The only one I tried and failed with, was the so called "Amish knot" on the "street of cards" site. You know, the one where you don't let go of the ends? I am still working on that one.

Finally, for the record, Tony Dunn did some great artwork for the Parade. But, I only noticed this week, that his illustration had a thumb on the outside of the rope being held, which would make it impossible to have the knot work. The text, however, describes it correctly. Its been a year or so, and nobody called me. So, no-one probably tried it.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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"Its been a year or so, and nobody called me. So, no-one probably tried it."

Which just goes to prove that the best place to hide magic secrets is in a magic magazine. The readers are too busy looking at the ads and obituaries and the photos of old geezers congratulating themselves and handing themselves awards for longevity.

Do I sound cynical? Naaah!
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funsway
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I noticed it but didn't think to ask about it -- just figured it out. I guess I am just getting used to mistakes in magic descriptions -- most common is confusing which hand is being used. A stray thumb doesn't bothered me.

Besides, at the time I didn't know how "reachable" Ian was -- now I would use any excuse to contact him since something useful always spills out.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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magicians
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Spills out is right, just look at my picture.
I did have some wonderful comments, but I am not sure what was used.
It was odd doing the Parade, I comprised it from unpublished material (most of it was on video). The written words were text without photos, and the illustrations were added afterwards, and I never reviewed them.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Bagatelli
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I can't find the small video there, should I?
I'm just searching for a practical method to let a silk appear in a knot. So I found this post.
magicians
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Quote:
On 2010-08-20 10:58, Bagatelli wrote:


I can't find the small video there, should I?
I'm just searching for a practical method to let a silk appear in a knot. So I found this post.

I had taken down the location since the original post. I will find it and post it again. The marconick method was a simple square knot using two hands. Have a silk in the fist already on the rope. Just as you tighten the second half of the knot, let go of the silk.
My method is different.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
funsway
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This discussion has me thinking on how to have a silk "appear" within a knot on a rope. While holding only a rope in your fingers, you make a snapping motion and a knot appears in the middle of the rope with a silk inside -- a double production. Then you could proceed with your other Silk and Rope effects. I can think of two ways to achieve this but have to try them out -- if anyone thinks it has merit.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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magicians
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Quote:
On 2010-08-20 14:17, funsway wrote:
This discussion has me thinking on how to have a silk "appear" within a knot on a rope. While holding only a rope in your fingers, you make a snapping motion and a knot appears in the middle of the rope with a silk inside -- a double production. Then you could proceed with your other Silk and Rope effects. I can think of two ways to achieve this but have to try them out -- if anyone thinks it has merit.

This is what I had done. I do a one handed knot, and the silk winds up int the center of the knot. All of the knots have the silk tied in the knot. My difference is that I do one-handed knots. Not a snap, but an appearance.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Bagatelli
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I knew, there was something, aahh it was from Marconick.
I have to look, but I am hopeful to find it.
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Reading posts is FUN-da-mental.

"Silk in Knot" is in the book "Marconick's Original Magic" dated 1967. Want the page number?
Professor Spellbinder

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Bagatelli
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Thank you Spellbinder, I found it, although the Pages of the script don't have numbers.
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