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QuailCreek
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Thanks, Pete.

Man am I learning allot.

Tom
Regards,
Silverthorne
Motor City
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Quote:
On 2010-08-22 19:24, Bill Palmer wrote:
According to that eminent authority on psychology, Jamy Ian Swiss, the whole left brain / right brain thing has been discredited. See the latest issue of Genii for full details.


Bill are you referring to the Aug., 2010 issue or the July, 2010 issue of Genii? Thanks.

John Luka
Bill Palmer
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The August issue. Jamy just mentions it in passing, along with his disdain for NLP and a few other things that he considers "unscientific" and "superstitious."

I never cease to be amazed at the depth of his knowledge. Smile

He must be paid by the word, because he certainly uses a lot of them to review a DVD.
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QuailCreek
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Seth,
Excellent input.

I like the idea of the cup ringing when you tap it with a wand. Does the brass make a different sound than the copper?

Tom

Quote:
On 2010-08-24 08:34, sethb wrote:
In my experience, the size of your hands determines the size of the balls that you should use. Many C&B sets come with 1" balls, which I found slightly too big for my hands. Most magic shops also carry 7/8" balls, which work better for me, and even 3/4" ones.

Whatever size balls you get, buy a spare set so that when one rolls under the refrigerator or is destroyed by your cat, it's not the end of your act. The Morrissey brand knt balls from Canada are inexpensive, yet well made with a thick wool that helps to prevent the balls from "talking" at the wrong times.

I have had good luck with the Bazar DeMagia cups, which are available in aluminum, brass and copper. I started with aluminum and graduated to brass, which are much heavier and have a nice ring when hit with a plastic wand. They will also take a good-sized final load. These cups are well made, durable, and at about $75, won't cost you an arm and a leg. If you order a straight set and a combo set, you will be able to try routines with and without the chopped cup, and will also have two spares in case of loss or damage. In my opinion, the chopped cup is more trouble than it's worth, but there are others who will disagree.

Many folks subscribe to the "bigger is better" theory for final loads. Just remember that the bigger the load, the tougher it is to load it unseen into the cup. In my experience, a better principle is "the odder the better," meaning a non-congruent final load like a lemon, potato, or even a stack of coins. When I'm pitching the small plastic Royal Magic C&B sets from FUN, Inc., I use a "D" battery as a final load. This lets me end the routine with the gag line "Oh, the battery's dead, sorry, no more magic today!" I have also used a golf ball as a final load, but the battery always gets the bigger and better response.

For DVD teaching, you can't do better than the Ammar 2-disc set. As you know, Ammar emphasizes learning the different moves so that you can construct your own routine. For further study, I'd suggest Bob White's excellent DVD, "A Practical Approach to the Cups & Balls," click HERE for more info. Bob is from the Dai Vernon school of thought, and he emphasizes naturalness in his sleights and moves.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Cups & Balls, and don't be overly concerned about what sort of cups you get. The trick is about you and your presentation, not the cups! SETH
Regards,
Silverthorne
Josh Riel
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I don't get paid to perform magic, so my opinion is just a little less than relevant. However, I will still give it.

I like White balls with a Black mat, assuming I'm using Copper or Wood (Dark) cups. If I'm using Stainless or Aluminum cups I like to use a darker ball (White and black/red/blue usually) I really like a more vibrant ball seeing as that is the magic (Opinions...). I like fairly big and heavy balls, but not too heavy 1 1/4" with a rubber core is nice for me. Not popular and way too much of a pain to make very many.

Anyway, there is my opinion (It is an opinion that I've reached with the thinking of some other magicians, but nonetheless it is mine now.)

as far as the right/left brain thing, I'm happy if I can get any of my brain to work, I don't dare ask where it lives.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
QuailCreek
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Thanks Josh,
I really didn't think about the weight of the balls. I was only concerned with the size. Something that will be easy to play with as the balls are the cheaper part of the setup.

Thanks again,
Tom

Quote:
On 2010-08-24 16:58, Josh Riel wrote:
I don't get paid to perform magic, so my opinion is just a little less than relevant. However, I will still give it.

I like White balls with a Black mat, assuming I'm using Copper or Wood (Dark) cups. If I'm using Stainless or Aluminum cups I like to use a darker ball (White and black/red/blue usually) I really like a more vibrant ball seeing as that is the magic (Opinions...). I like fairly big and heavy balls, but not too heavy 1 1/4" with a rubber core is nice for me. Not popular and way too much of a pain to make very many.

Anyway, there is my opinion (It is an opinion that I've reached with the thinking of some other magicians, but nonetheless it is mine now.)

as far as the right/left brain thing, I'm happy if I can get any of my brain to work, I don't dare ask where it lives.
Regards,
Silverthorne
sethb
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[quote] On 2010-08-24, QuailCreek wrote: I like the idea of the cup ringing when you tap it with a wand. Does the brass make a different sound than the copper? [quote]
I only own the brass cups, so I can't say what sort of sound the copper cups make, but I'm sure other folks will chime in on this (no pun intended). Tapping and ringing the cups with the wand helps to produce that "magic moment" when the balls supposedly appear and disappear. If you're pitching, the noise also helps to attract more people who are curious to find out what all the noise and fuss is about.

BTW, I use a cheap $2 plastic 11" wand for closeup and a 13" plastic one for parlour-type venues. They both look fine, do the job in the misdirection department, and most importantly, don't put any dents in my brass cups. It's too light for a Vernon Wand Spin, but I could never master that move anyway! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
QuailCreek
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So after reading through the thread again here’s what I’m leaning towards.

First I’ll be doing my routine standing. I’m thinking that as long as the cups will handle a tennis ball size final load I’m good and 1” balls are a good place to start.

As far as the cups. I’m thinking the Mendoza Combo Cups |Copper |Mirror Finish from RNT. Always good to support the com

Donny, if you would PM me with what you would suggest I would be grateful.

Here’s what I'm going to pick u-p as far as DVDs. Maybe Bill can suggest some books.
Cups & Balls - A Practical Approach - by Bob White $37.46
Cups & Balls - The Greater Magic Video Library Teach-in Sessions $22.46
Elegant Cups and Balls - by Rafael Benatar $26.21
Worlds Greatest Magic - The Fabulous Three Ball Routine $15.00


I also like the Ricky Jay C&B routine. The routine doesn’t look like it's all that tricky but the story and the kicker ending is pretty cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgm4wZCACYg

Tom
Regards,
Silverthorne
walid ahumada
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Quote:
On 2010-08-23 22:53, Bill Palmer wrote:
Not in that price range, at least. Remember Andy Comic basically put that together as a budget way to get into a set of busking cups. These cups are no longer made.

Cups are a very personal thing.

BTW, that wasn't actually a case. It was a busking pouch. Okay, it was a fanny pack, but if you think it's a case, you are missing the purpose of it.

Getting back to the cups, though. You can order a set of cups, balls and loads from RnT II. They even have wands. So all you would be missing is the pouch.

Pouches are even more personal than cups.


besides that, the set also included an interesting chop wand idea ,the floating wand gimmick and a DVD.
Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide. BEN OKRI quote
sethb
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I think the "Three Ball Routine" is not a C&B effect, it is just three balls in the hands and pocket. A great classic, but not a C&B effect. Were you thinking of making it part of a C&B routine? Now there's an interesting idea!

The Greater Magic Teach-In has one segment by Mike Rogers that is worth the price of the video, in my opinion. I learned how to use a box servante and polished up my final load technique at the same time, then made my own variation using a tabled sign. An idea worth considering if you're doing a stand-up routine -- no pocket loads, and hardly any bad angles!

Also, be creative and try to think outside the box for your routine. Many C&B routines start off with one-ball appearances or transportations and then build to a 2-0-2 move or a "three in the middle" climax before the final loads. That's logical and a standard way to go. But someone here at the Caf' constructed a routine that began with a three-to-one move. What a great idea, and a great way to immediately grab the specs' attention and show that you know what you are doing! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Donnie Buckley
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Hiya Quail,
The Mendoza Combo cups are a might fine combo cup, no doubt, they have served me well for a long time, but these days I'm totally enamored with the Foxy 3 Combo Cups. They don't look BIG, but they feel BIG. Their shape and proportions makes several moves easier to accomplish. For instance, if you do a Tip-Off move, the mouth bead of the top cup "clears" the saddle of the bottom cup without lifting up the cup. That single proportional design makes a world of difference to me. It may not make that big of a difference to others though. It depends upon what you want to do with the cups...

Also, if you need to work with big honkin' 1 1/8" balls, you need to go with Mendozas. They have a lot of attic space. Since you are leaning towards 1" balls, the Foxy 3 Combos are going to just be perfect.

Both cups accomodate a tennis ball final load, but the Foxy 3 looks like it won't.

I have plenty of both in stock, it makes no difference to me which you choose, but if I was planning a purchase of a full sized Combo Cup set TODAY, I'd be getting the brand new Foxy 3 Combos.

You get 20% off the balls of your choice with a cup purchase and I have that Rafael Benatar DVD in stock too.

I'll PM you with some extras...

Sorry for the shameful self-promotion guys. I really try to stay out of these discussions on "cup suggestions" but it's hard - I'm a magician first, and a vendor second. Smile
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
conjurormatt
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Sethb You should look up a manuscript called Stinger (It's on Lybrary.com). It's a very unique routine for cups and balls, and does indeed include the three ball routine with the C&B.

Another C&B video to consider (and one strongly recommended to me by Denny Haney) is: The Tapestry of Deception part 4 "The Evolution of a Classic" by Michael Vincent.

To get an idea of his routine, check out this link, there is some very slick use of a combo set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MSKFJtaS5k&feature=related

Cheers!
Matthew Martin
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
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Dougini
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Matthew, that IS impressive. Slow and easy. I like it!

Thanks!
Doug
conjurormatt
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Your Welcome Doug, Oh, one minor typo. The e-book is called The Sting, not Stinger; it's by R. Shane.
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
~Dai Vernon
yin_howe
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Quote:
On 2010-08-24 17:51, sethb wrote:

BTW, I use a cheap $2 plastic 11" wand for closeup and a 13" plastic one for parlour-type venues. They both look fine, do the job in the misdirection department, and most importantly, don't put any dents in my brass cups. It's too light for a Vernon Wand Spin, but I could never master that move anyway! SETH


Not really. Although I'm just a hobbyest, but I use a cheap plastic wand and do the Vernon Wand spin vanish, it's just a matter of practise. but a wand with a little weight to it does make it slightly easier to learn due to the momentum.
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QuailCreek
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Seth,
The three ball routine was a suggestion from one of the posts on this thread as a way to learn better how to handle balls. I just think that sounded like a good idea.

Tom

Posted: Aug 25, 2010 1:35am
Donnie,
I asked your opinion so no self-promotion on your part. We all want to do our small part to support those who support the Caf'.

Thanks,
Tom
Regards,
Silverthorne
sethb
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Tom -- Now you can see why the Cups & Balls has survived for hundreds, if not thousands of years: it's a great and very versatile trick!

Have fun with it, and please let us know how and what you're doing. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Dougini
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QuailCreek,

I like that Ricky Jay routine. That's an example of an original routine. Have you decided on your cups? I've been a few places on the 'net, and can't find a nicer set than RNTII.

Mendoza Combo Cups/Copper/Mirror Finish, yes. If you can afford them, that's the set to buy. And, I appreciate everyone's video additions as well. Wow, what an education on the Cups & Balls.

For beginners on a budget, I have to say, $26 ain't bad for a nice set, at Morrissey Magic.

These are the ones I had for many years (scroll all the way to the bottom, "Cups & Balls Combination-Large Size Aluminum" - $42.00):

http://www.morrisseymagic.com/morrissey_......nd+balls

Again, just for beginners on a tight budget. You might want to ask about the correct size of ball you need for those cups (3/4 inch, and 1 inch). You'll find what you need.

Again, if it were me, I'd go with RNTII. Save your money. Get the BEST. Donnie will hook you up.

Doug
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For an example of an elegant "three ball" routine that uses a single cup, one might consider Sr. Rene Lavand's magisterial performance, which has been posted in this forum before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqzkGEvOOTc

A nice primer on the basic two-in-the-hand, one-in-the-pocket concept and routine can be found in the Lewis Ganson Teach-In that is available as an e-book from lybrary.com.

Woland
QuailCreek
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Hi Doug,
Thank you for the input. The price isn't that much of an issue. I really just want to make the good choice and then move on from there. Although I'm beginning to see what everybody's been talking about. There are a whole lot of cups out there and they are pretty nice looking. I might end up with several sets in order to make a final decision. Oh well... ;-)

Tom


Quote:
On 2010-08-26 10:15, Dougini wrote:
QuailCreek,

I like that Ricky Jay routine. That's an example of an original routine. Have you decided on your cups? I've been a few places on the 'net, and can't find a nicer set than RNTII.

Mendoza Combo Cups/Copper/Mirror Finish, yes. If you can afford them, that's the set to buy. And, I appreciate everyone's video additions as well. Wow, what an education on the Cups & Balls.

For beginners on a budget, I have to say, $26 ain't bad for a nice set, at Morrissey Magic.

These are the ones I had for many years (scroll all the way to the bottom, "Cups & Balls Combination-Large Size Aluminum" - $42.00):

http://www.morrisseymagic.com/morrissey_......nd+balls

Again, just for beginners on a tight budget. You might want to ask about the correct size of ball you need for those cups (3/4 inch, and 1 inch). You'll find what you need.

Again, if it were me, I'd go with RNTII. Save your money. Get the BEST. Donnie will hook you up.

Doug


And the technique is easy to understand and fairly simple to perform, at least the basics. You can go in so many different directions too.

Quote:
On 2010-08-25 08:05, sethb wrote:
Tom -- Now you can see why the Cups & Balls has survived for hundreds, if not thousands of years: it's a great and very versatile trick!

Have fun with it, and please let us know how and what you're doing. SETH
Regards,
Silverthorne
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