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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Disneyland lawsuit poll: (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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First, the issue (from two pieces with decidedly different slants):

http://www.styleite.com/media/disneyland-lawsuit/

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/f......s-video/


Just a barometer check...forget the legal arguments. I don't really care what people think the outcome will be; I'm wondering about what people think the outcome should be. For Disneyland on this one, or for Ms. Boudlal?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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Good grief. What in the world could be wrong with a hostess wearing a head scarf?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
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Disney should win and will if they don't get scared.
MagicSanta
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John, I realize you are anti anything corporate and pro contrary to corporate but Disney makes their policies very clear and exactly what is expected for the employees in the public view. They did not fire her, they did not send her home, they offered her a temporary relocation should she not be able to meet the standard which she agreed to upon taking employment there.

I put in to get a job in the 70s at an amusement park and they made their policy very clear as well and I felt I could not abide with it and turned down the job. That is the beauty of this country, we are not forced into jobs.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2010-08-24 23:39, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Good grief. What in the world could be wrong with a hostess wearing a head scarf?

John


It's against their dress code. They don't allow any form of religious or political statements or symbols to be made by any of their employees who interface with the public. It's a complete across the board decree.
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MagicSanta
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Hell has froze over!
Magnus Eisengrim
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The deeper question is whether the dress code is defensible. Not all dress codes are equal.

And Santa, where did you get the idea that I'm anti-corporate. A couple of posters seem to want to call me a socialist, etc. but I've never been anti-corporate.



John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:05, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
The deeper question is whether the dress code is defensible.


You mean legally?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Scott Cram
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Should be: I briefly worked at a Disney store, and even there they make it clear that they expect certain things, including a specific dress code.

I find it hard to believe that she pulled this unaware of Disney's dress code. Disney should prevail, and most likely will, since their history about such matters is fairly clear.

There's no right to work at Disney. If you want to work with them, you agree to their terms. If you violate their terms, you've given them an excuse to terminate you.

In this case, I see the islamic headscarf as no different than a mohawk, tattoos, or a T-shirt with swear words on it. Of course, that's the only reason this story is being given attention.
MagicSanta
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You are constantly taking the side that is against the company and I would certainly call you a socialist if not further left than that. Defensible or not that is the image they want to put across and they have as much right to do so as the woman has the right not to work there. I've never called a press conference over a dress code problem myself.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:12, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:05, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
The deeper question is whether the dress code is defensible.

You mean legally?

That's a great question, too. But in the OP you were asking about the ethical question.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

John



Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:13, Scott Cram wrote:
Should be: I briefly worked at a Disney store, and even there they make it clear that they expect certain things, including a specific dress code.


But can they expect any old dress code, or are there legitimate moral and legal limits to what they can demand.

Quote:
I find it hard to believe that she pulled this unaware of Disney's dress code. Disney should prevail, and most likely will, since their history about such matters is fairly clear.

There's no right to work at Disney. If you want to work with them, you agree to their terms. If you violate their terms, you've given them an excuse to terminate you.


Again, what terms are legitimate? The boss can't make you sleep with him. But he can make you smile politely to customers.

Quote:
In this case, I see the Islamic headscarf as no different than a Mohawk, tattoos, or a T-shirt with swear words on it. Of course, that's the only reason this story is being given attention.

That is an unusual position. Religious freedom is generally regarded as morally different from hairstyles and t-shirts.

We faced a similar situation in Canada a number of years ago. Can Sikh men wear turbans and fulfill their duties as RCMP officers? Many people didn't like it, but the courts ruled that they could. And they do.

Image


John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
EsnRedshirt
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From what I heard, Disney apparently has a head covering that meets Islamic dress standards, and said she could wear it. But she wanted to wear her headscarf instead.

Makes about as much sense as a truck driver for a sausage company refusing to haul pork products, or a pharmacist refusing to dispense prescribed medications on religious grounds. You knew the rules when you took the job- why'd you take it if you don't intend on following them?
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MagicSanta
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Oh lord, please put Disney out of business, they are an evil company and it is better to release its 150,000 employees and give all the money to this poor woman who should have been exempt to the policies the other 149,999 live with, until they are fired. Amen.....
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:22, EsnRedshirt wrote:
From what I heard, Disney apparently has a head covering that meets Islamic dress standards, and said she could wear it. But she wanted to wear her headscarf instead.

Makes about as much sense as a truck driver for a sausage company refusing to haul pork products, or a pharmacist refusing to dispense prescribed medications on religious grounds. You knew the rules when you took the job- why'd you take it if you don't intend on following them?


One of the articles implied that the Disney-supplied scarf had not yet been delivered and she chose to wear her own during Ramadan.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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I think Disney needs to make accommodations for religious dress, and also for popular styles of modern dress. The second link says:

"Boudlal didn’t hear anything for two months and was then told she could wear a head scarf, but it had to be designed by Disneyland’s costume department to comply with the Disney look"

So what on earth is taking Disney so long to design its own head scarf? Why didn't they do this years ago?

But this is Disney after all, so I am not surprised:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uI24zE-3g

(Be sure to watch to the end.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Josh Riel
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I imagine there is more to the story than what we have access to.

I imagine this will not make any difference in the arguments offered here.

I imagine it will get all religious/moral/political/racial in this here thread.


It will be more of the same. At least the scintillating Internet discussions are predictable, otherwise they would get really boring after a few years and/or a few hundred reads.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
MagicSanta
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John...the Hajib is NOT (<---see that word?) required by the Islamic religion. A Turban is not required by the Sikn men either but being Canada I'm sure if a Morman mountie wanted to hand out the Book of Morman and tracts and witness to the people they encounter about his religion he should be allowed to because that is required of them correct? So how many actual Turban wearing mounties are there? I lived in an area with lots of Indians, in fact in the shadow of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Gurdwara_-_San_Jose

and they don't run around in turbans all the time, sure some of the ones that are older and new to the country do but those guys are also not running around joining the police either. I'd wager that dude in the photo was a model they came up with because of a 'just in case' scenerio. Geeeezus
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:34, Josh Riel wrote:
I imagine it will get all religious/moral/political/racial in this here thread.




Uhhhhh yeah...cuz without us transforming it like that, what in the story is remotely religious, or political? I guess that Council for American Islamic Relations (the political/religious group that got involved on the plaintiff's behalf) must have predicted the Café posters' discussion would somehow create a political or religious issue out of this. Who knew they had staff mentalists?!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 00:35, MagicSanta wrote:

John...the Hajib is NOT (<---see that word?) required by the Islamic religion.

Well, I suspect that is quite open to debate. I'm in no mood for taking part in that, on either side, at the moment.

But note the very last sentence below, in what I quoted from here:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel......99913217

"Hijab is a religious obligation for Muslim women. It is a religious ordinance that is supported by both the Qur’an and the Sunnah. Thus, hijab is a duty that Allah Almighty prescribes for the Muslim woman, and she has to carry out that duty in compliance with the Command of Allah by showing her sincere faith in Allah through wearing the hijab.

The Islamic dress code for women is not only covering the head or wearing a long dress. Hijab is the proper Islamic dress code, which is primarily intended to safeguard the modesty, dignity, and honor of men and women.

It is incorrect to use the word hijab to refer only to the headscarf."

So hijab (proper dress) IS required. The head covering may not be.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Turkey and France even decided Hajibs couldn't be worn everywhere! FRANCE! The sacred homeland of lefties! Turkey, a nation where 99% of the population is registered Muslim! THEY do it but Disney must be brought to their knees by a personal choice...
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