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Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 17:41, Dannydoyle wrote: No. If it's such a teenie tiny number/percentage, why don't you tell me... |
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Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 17:42, MagicSanta wrote: Troll. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I want Chance to give us some numbers. Not just a few articles posted to prove some radical point of view.
I also want him to either admit I never said he was a cop hater or show me where I wrote it. Santa you may indeed have a point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 16:31, Dannydoyle wrote: No, I post the clear flaws in the system. How many people in "regular" jobs have you heard of that kept their jobs after similar events to the one's I linked to? I am in no way denying that good people have had their careers ruined as well, but that says absolutely nothing about holding bad cops accountable. You can't just point to the other end and say "look at that, you want to talk about it, let's focus on what I'm pointing at," meanwhile completely ignoring and distracting attention away from the issue trying to be discussed. As for Tawana Brawley, to be honest I am not too familiar with her, but I have not found indication that any cops were fired as a result. I am NOT saying they did not have their reputations slandered, nor denying that they suffered, but that has absolutely nothing to do with how the system holds them accountable, and everything to do dishonest people and the media. All I am saying is that the system is set in such a way that police are not held accountable to the same degree as others, when in fact they should be held far MORE accountable. If you are going to give someone that much power over others, you *** well better be able to keep them in check. And you sure as hell better not have a system that helps cover for them, and even pressures good cops to avoid coming forward about it, even to the point of threatening them if they don't go along. You really think that is the small exception you make it out to be? Even if it was that does not mean we ignore it. It may not be the majority, but it is far from a SMALL minority. The level of corruption is far beyond that of any other industry that is not in bed with the government. Granted, you'd be hard pressed to find an industry not in bed with them. The point still stands, the level of corruption is far higher in them, and government in general, and accountability far lower. This is exactly where accountability needs to be higher than anywhere.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Now you say the level of corruption is beyond that of any other industry. Say politics.
Give me some numbers on corruption statistics and back it up. It is a SMALL minority.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 17:44, Dannydoyle wrote: Is that all you want? Well, why didn't you say so? Me, I just want a world where the police and the criminals can be told apart by more than just their outfits. Sadly, I think we're both going to bed tonight very disappointed. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
My brother was arrested or stopped virtually every day up till his death (to my knowledge he has not had a problem with the police since them) and that alone would drive a cop nuts.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Not me. I never expected a rational answer from you in the first place. I knew your agenda from the first word. I am not the least bit disapointed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 17:34, Chance wrote: EXACTLY. It doesn't matter how small the number is, the point is these are the very people for whom there MUST be higher accountability. You can't just dismiss these situations because of the better majority, or because of the crap they have to deal with. The crap they have to deal with is EXACTLY why the need to be held to a higher accountability. Quote:
On 2010-09-08 17:42, MagicSanta wrote: Then they wouldn't have a job. Again, it doesn't matter what they have to deal with, nothing excuses the behaviours we have been talking about. You don't get to sacrifice innocent people to the "stress of the job." 'Yeah, give the cops a break, they have it hard.' Doesn't mean they get to violate innocent people, or even the guilty.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 17:49, Dannydoyle wrote: No, I clearly specified any other industry NOT in bed with the government. I think that would include politics more than anything else.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You miss the point totally. HOW WOULD YOU FIX IT? It is an institution. It is what it is. You can ONLY go for the majority.
Like I said you live in a perfect utopian world and the view from the high horse is great, all you have to do is level accusations, and never answer the tough questions. Don't answer long enough people get bored and you forget you were ever asked so you feel great about yourself. You are unwilling or unable to put in the intellectual heavy lifting necessary to have a viewpoint grounded in anything other than plattitudes. Yes people SHOULD be held to this or that standard or what not. Then claim things are bad because you only look at the exception to the rules to find a point you want to make. Try getting your nose dirty with solutions just once. That is why I suggested you ride along. To change your mind? Oh no you are far too high and mighty for that to happen. BUT it would at least give you an informed opinion. It may not change but at least it would be informed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 17:51, Dannydoyle wrote: Yes, of course, my "agenda". But not the one where you're trying to paint me as a cop hater, right? So what other agenda could there possibly be then, pray tell? |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
And YET AGAIN, it does not matter how small the minority, that does NOT excuse it, nor negate that this is an industry where we require the utmost accountability, and we simply do NOT have it.
If you insist, I will do my best to find some numbers. Yet again, it's not about the numbers. It's a pretty small minority of priest who molest children, does that negate the fact that the church covers for them over and over again? Hell no. It is EXACTLY the same thing that I am talking about with the cops. Quote:
On 2010-09-08 17:55, Dannydoyle wrote: LMGDMFAO Really, it's about offering solutions? I'm sorry, where did you make that the focus amongst all your "look at the good cops, look at the people who defamed the good cops" BS? And, actually, I have spent a HELL of a lot of time doing EXACTLY what you suggesting. That is actually WHY I have the opinions I so now. Because I became more informed. Not from buying into, and parroting the same circles within circles justifications and rationalizations for the way things are convincing myself that's how they have to be. It's necessary evils. No, so much of these things are completely unnecessary evils. My viewpoint is VERY grounded in reality and more than just "intellectual heavy lifting," of which I have done plenty to get to where I am.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Again show me where I did that Chance.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 18:04, gdw wrote: Also, do you REALLY think "you don't have a better, fully formed model of how to run things" is justification? Do you think that would have held as an argument against abolishing slavery? "But what will the slaves do? How will the fields be plowed? What job ill each of the slaves have if we get rid of slavery?" Yo don't need a whole new system to get rid of things that are clearly evil. You get ride of them simply because they are evil. You don't just accept them as a necessary evil until something better comes along.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Can we get off the cop hater crap? It's completely irrelevant to the actual issue, and you are both befuddling things with it.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yep it is the slavery arguement. Next mention Hitler and the Nazi movement for your hat trick of ridiculous internet clap trap.
That is definately my clue to leave. The point is totally lost on you and obviously will be. Have fun in Utopia with Chance.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Wait....first they are just like everyone else and shouldn't have any authority over anyone and now they should have a higher level of accountability?
I will say one thing about the police, other than they have an extremely difficult job and deal with horrible situations and lying scumbags all day, they are not all equal. In San Jose, and I believe most of the bay area other than Oakland (where you go if no one else will hire you as a cop), the officers have to be at least 21 years old and have at minimum an associates degree and pass a very deep background check and if convicted of a felony or domestic violence they ain't getting in. The starting pay is over $70,000 a year. What this does is give you at least a somewhat older and educated force. I have always found the SJPD to be professional and polite yet downtown a group of misfits follow them around with video cameras and tape and harrass the police officers as they try to do their job. I've seen some states that hire 18 year olds right out of highschool and to be honest with you I think that is a bad idea. The reason is there is a big difference between 18 and 21 (should be noted most SJPD have four year degrees) and 18 year olds are less disciplined and go into the job wanting power. I really think the min age should be around 24 myself but 21 will work and the degree is a good idea. Chance....everyone knows the rules in Boston, if the police went after you then you were violating them. I realize you think it is your 'right' to do what you want but you don't....so if the police hassle you all the time maybe it is you less than them that is the problem. I'm getting back to watching Dirty Harry now...he just invited the hot Asian girl into his apartment. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 18:12, Dannydoyle wrote: No, actually, I was pointing out that what you are doing is presenting an argument from ignorance. You are essentially saying "you don't have a better system at the ready, and I can't think of one, therefore my explanation sticks." To demand someone present a better solution is to misdirect from the actual issue which is that the current "solution" does not work, and is, at its heart, evil. Quote:
On 2010-09-08 18:31, MagicSanta wrote: No, I said they need to be held to a higher degree of accountability than they currently are, and IF you are going to put someone in a position of power over others like that, THEN they must be held to a higher degree of accountability than others.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
The are held accountable but guess what lefty, so do the ones the police are dealing with. There are two types of people, with some exceptions of course since there is the odds of large numbers, who approach the police with a weapon, idiots and suicidal people. As for the original topic if you believe they are going to waste their time putting tracking devices onto cars that don't already have them then there is, in their minds, a reason. Your average Joe, Jose, or Mohammed isn't going to have to worry about it.
If you don't like the police then don't break the law and don't call them if someone else is breaking the law and you alone are the victim. That simple. |
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