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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 11:21, gaffed wrote: Gaffed!!! Watch the movie! Watch the movie! How could you not want to see whether or not your handiwork was used?!?! I just think it would be so neat to see something I created used in a movie!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 12:51, gaffed wrote: Phil- He mentions it because the whole crux of TT arguments of credit and attribution are that Max had developed this concept years ago. So now we are back chatting about the same groundhog day subject that Brad has so deftly and smilingly steered/veered us into. Now like clockwork TT will chime in - ding
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 14:13, Andrew Zuber wrote: Holy crap......she did it! As I now remember it, I was told that they were going to film the sequence with the camera shooting up through the bottom of a glass table, but apparently they decided to scrap that. Well, at least from what I saw in the trailer. Wow, that was 20 years ago! Where the hell does time go? I absolutely hate going to the movies so I figured I would rent it when it came out. But, as time went on I guess I kept pushing it aside and eventually just forgot about it. Thanks for the link Andrew! Quote:
On 2011-05-06 14:06, saysold1 wrote: That’s what that comment was all about! Just because I mentioned Phil Goldstein’s name while doing a bit of reminiscing! Jeez....God forgive me, but I guess it takes all kinds on any given forum site. Hmm....come to think about it, I never saw “Groundhog Day” either!
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Posted: May 6, 2011 5:00pm
-------------------------------------- Re: the trailer - Sometimes things on trailers do not make it into the final film. Or they do, but from a different shot. They may have done a shot from below the glass, and it may be in the film - but not the trailer. Regardless, what a great moment for you!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
I own Groundhog Day and can say that no stripper decks were used in the making of that film, Gaffed, so you can cross it off your list. I actually remembered this moment in Curly Sue after I saw the trailer, so it is indeed in the film. In fact I think it won an Oscar for Best Use of a Stripper Deck in 1991. You should look into that...the academy probably owes you a statue.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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mskowronski New user 64 Posts |
Saysold1 - since you have the effect and tend to promote it on the boards.....
Is a historical development provided in the instructions? Do the predecessors of the effect get the recognition they deserve? Just curious - I do not own it, but have thought about it. I am a firm believer that prior establishers of techniques etc., should be recognized for their creativity and efforts. I always find it interesting that a musician will give credit before they sing another artists song, but in magic before we perform we do not find the same manners justifiable. I have been following this thread in the Latest & Greatest as well as here, but have not seen this really answered. Mike |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
Well, after all these years certainly a pleasant surprise moment if anything!
Maybe I’ll throw the movie in my queue on Netflix and give it a watch……finally. Then when it’s over I’ll very carefully watch the credits and if my name isn’t mentioned there will be hell to pay and I’ll be constantly posting about my anger over it on this very thread, over, and over , and over again. Then, and only then, will I make some inquires to the “Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences” about my award. As for Groundhog Day, they also approached me to make an ultra miniature ID for the ground hog to use in a short sequence, but they didn’t offer me enough so screw them!
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 19:12, mskowronski wrote: The original instructions I have (from a year ago) credit Christoph Borer as I recall. I do not know if crediting on the instructions have changed. I have never ever disagreed with the need to provide proper crediting on any effect. My issue is and has been that Cardshark many months ago stated here on the Café that the Taylor Peek Deck and Max deserved recognition. That entire thread (the original) was removed sadly as the thread devolved into exposures.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 19:12, mskowronski wrote: You actually believe that a magician should first; give the name of the trick, and then give all the credits to said trick when he performs it? Wow....I'm sure that would go over real good with the spectators. I've seen quite a few musicians in my life at age 64. I've even had the extreme pleasure of seeing Frank Sinatra. Very, and I mean very seldom have I heard musicians give credit to each each song he or she sings. Yes, it does happen on occasion ,but one certainly does not do that when performing magic, and for obvious reasons! Can you imagine a magician performing a trick, but first saying that the trick was first performed, i.e. by Dai Vernon, then later revamped by Harry Lorayne, and then a sleight variation and great twist was made to by Michael Ammar, etc., etc.? Do you actually think a spectator would care, much less even know who the hell you are talking about? They would be dozing off before you even got into it, and rightfully so! Other than that, as saysold said, the subject of Get Sharky has been covered ad nauseam in regards to "credits" to the point of a very informative thread being deleted entirely due to someones bull headed need for attention. Now.....can we please END it? Hmmm... seems as though as I might have said that before. Please excuse my repeating myself and my promise to "ignore", but I still have full confidence this thread will go on, and the one to be ignored will indeed be ignored for obvious reasons which I previously covered.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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mskowronski New user 64 Posts |
Gaffed,
Do you look at magic as an art? Just curious.... I guess I did er in my description - not in performance to laymen but to fellow magi. If one cannot properly do this in basic instructions, then is that not fraudulent? Also, just out of curiosity - just since you tend to ridicule - why do think you should be mentioned in the credits for groundhog day, since you watched it? I guess then I should be mentioned in a ton of magic effects since I have seen them - really poor comparison. By the way, why did you respond if you were going to ignore - confused by the hypocrisy. If no credit was given, then they should be placed in the instructions, should they not???? Pretty simple eh? Sounds not though. |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
First of all, I am not the creator of Get Sharky, the brilliant idea is the one of Christoph Borer. I am the producer and publisher of this gem, as I invented the Double Deckers, the perfect companion to lift the old idea of Get Sharky, first published in lecture notes in 1986, on a complete new level.
Christoph gave credit as far as he could / should. This is a big discussion source that should be kept for another thread as In my point of view the following should be mandatory, here an example of my own creation called Metamorphosis: The trick is influenced by the effect "Ten" of Richard Sanders. I owned the effect and used it for a very long time. One day I was thinking why Jokers turn into the four Ten? Even if it was / is a great trick, It had no real meaning for the spectator. What made sense for me was the change from caterpillar images to butterflies. So I created a kid's version called Colouring butterflies first. Several people told me that it would be a great addition, revealing a final butterfly on the back of the spectator's hand, like the frightening spider in The Web. Getting more and more into storytelling, I found the perfect twist with old looking cards and invented Metamorphosis. I certainly mention all the effects that inspired ME to create the effect. But I think it would be asked too much if I would have to go on the search and find maybe a shaman who sticks a real butterfly to a hand, or to mention NFW as it also uses a sticky card principle. Even if they might have been there, they did not influence me in my creation process. This is what counts. Maybe even Ten goes back to other old principles, but Ten was the effect that made me thinking. I know that this can be discussed in both directions, but this is my point of view, I allow others to have theirs. Maybe they might be good in magic history but are maybe creative cripples who cannot think of anything new of their own. They will always look back but will not proceed our art of magic. Now regarding Get Sharky I certainly talked with Christoph when the accusations first came up. As this is already months ago I try to repeat what he said from my my memory: He definitely stated that Max was using a different handling and that Max's effect did not influence him at all. If yes, he would have mentioned it. For myself I can say I still only know Max's effect from hearsay, without knowing his presentation or his secret.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 20:53, mskowronski wrote: Mentioned in the credits for "Groundhog Day"?? Sorry, but I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about?? That, and aside from the fact that I've never seen the movie! Did I just enter the Twilight Zone here! Whoa.....this is really getting spooky! Scotty.....beam me up....now!
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 20:53, mskowronski wrote: I think you missed the point of this post - he was referring to the credits of Curly Sue because he built the deck of cards used in the film, and I'm fairly certain he was joking.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-05-06 21:46, Andrew Zuber wrote: Andrew is of course right as I was most obviously joking in reference to the credits. Silly me, but I thought anyone with an ounce of common sense and even the remotest semblance to having a sense of humor would have easily ascertained that. It would seem that some people are so eager to jump in on any thread that is becoming argumentative, and or seems to be having some friction that they will read a post without actually.....READING it! I was going to say something on the subject of magic and giving credits, but on second thought I decided against it. Aside from the obvious fact that this is not what this thread is about. Some people are so obsessive on the subject of crediting that I feel at times as if they feel any given new trick on the market must be traced back to the book of Genesis in the bible. It reminds me of a comment once made by Abraham Lincoln and seems very apropos on this subject; “....it’s like trying to shovel fleas across a barnyard.” All in all a real shame and it would seem that this thread is becoming unsalvageable. Anyway, I now have Get Sharky and I love it PERIOD....END OF STORY... acta est fabula
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
"Get Sharky" seems like a great concept. The history of the effect has been comprehensively covered (one might dare to assume?) I would suggest that further debates about it's origins would only be enhanced with further historical information.
Those who feel there is a lack of clarity about the origins of this effect may do well to look at many other effects being released. There is much need for historical research into many, many other releases. I don't get what makes this particular effect so special. Unless certain folks have only a very limited knowledge of the history of magic, and this just happens to be one effect they know about. It would have been nice to have some of these magical historians to back me up with some other effects, which are complete rip-offs, and I've been shot down because I maintain they are not simply taking effects forward, but are absolutely stealing the original concepts (such as Chance Wolf's "Cellulator".) Potty |
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Acecardician Inner circle New Orleans 1390 Posts |
It is like Christmas in May! I got my Parlor Size in today! Since I already own the reg. size, it should not take much if any practice. So I am going to try it out tonight in my corporate walk around gig.
Tomorrow I will be at the Ritz for the Mother's Day brunch all day, and I will try it there also. What fun I will have! ACE Posted: May 7, 2011 7:12pm ----------------------------------- I always though the famous one-armed magician from the last century invented this effect. That is what I tell my audiences. ACE
My Chinese Stick Collection: https://app.photobucket.com/u/ChineseSticks?sort=6
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Jimmy Vee Regular user Jimmy Vee 176 Posts |
Christian,
Please contact me. Jimmy |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
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On 2011-05-07 14:59, Potty the Pirate wrote: A book from 2010 mentions Dr. Franklin V. Taylor's Peek deck being combined with a presentation with card(s) in a pocket. This would go back a long time - longer than the late 1970's certainly in terms of history: Respected mathematician, statistician & magician Frederick Mosteller in his latest book "The Pleasures Of Statistics," describes his friendship at Princeton University with professor Franklin Taylor who worked at Princeton in the department of Psychology - and briefly mentions an effect using the Taylor's deck with a "hand in the pocket" presentation. Interesting. http://books.google.com/books?id=Eu9ZsgG......&f=false There is only one chapter in this book dedicated to magic and the mention of Taylor's peek deck - but this direct memory does seem to contradict the history of the one armed effect being created by MM in the 1970's and (possibly) rather dates the presentation to the 1950's. The book is available at Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Statisti......87779558
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
In re-reading the lines from the book, the mention of the hands to pocket may have been referring to a trick with coins rather that the peek deck.
In any event, this style of deck has been around for a LONG time (1940's) - but it was the innovation of the Phoenix Double Decker cards that put the Taylor Peek Deck on steroids on on a whole new plane.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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