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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
Alexandre, I agreed with you that a teenager can with great acting skill managed to performed a great mentalism act. BUT, as good as he can be, the audience won't buy it! Unless you as the mentalist what to pretend supernatural psychic abilities...
But if you presented yourself as a mentalist, someone that gain his abilities throught studing psychology, body language, experiences in your field of work, you know that a 16 years old mentalist won't be able to be credible about it, that's my point. How a 16 years old mentalist will introduce himself ? How can he explains to the audience about his abilities ? And as good as your niece is, it's just a teenager doing a magic tricks! |
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ThePhilosopher Regular user Menlo Park, CA 122 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-09-10 09:45, Stefmagic wrote: If you want an example of a teenage success with the psychic presentation you don't have to look very far. I believe Banachek was in his late teens when he was involved with Project Alpha. I also agree about the psychological mentalist. He claims to rely on a large range of skills to be able to do what he does. In fact, I think that a mentalist should possess this kind of background in real life: hypnotism, basic NLP, body language, general psychology, etc. Even though our methods are often elsewhere, we need to sound like we know what we are talking about.
- Nathan
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Frank Douglas Special user 555 Posts |
Stef
All that needs to be done is to play the teenage mentalist as a Wunderkind/Savant/Child Prodegy. There was one pianist on AGT that not only was playing at Symphony caliber level, but was writing his own arrangements. How many kids have not only gone through Senior high, but graduated from college in their teens? I know of one that was starting medical school here at 19. Why not a mental Wunderkind? How old was Banachek when Randi turned him loose? JM2CW Cheers Frank |
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
Banachek, Geller,.. they are just "exceptions"! Prodige of the art. And don't forget it was the 70s and 80s! In the 80s, a majority of the general public was certain that David Coppefield actually passed throught the Great Wall of China, that it was real! Today, almost everybody with an average IQ knows it's just an illusion.
In the subject of this post, we are talking about teenagers, newbies wanting to begin in mentalism. Can you told me that any teenager can become a credible mentalist ??? I doubt about it. |
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
IMO a certain level of maturity and "command presence" that are rarely found in anyone under 30 (and almost never in a teenager) is essential if one is to be taken seriously (i.e., credible) as a mentalist -- depending, of course, on how one defines "mentalist." (e.g., "mental magic" or "tricks with a mental theme" is not the same as "mentalism.") While there are some forms of "psychic entertainment" that the "gifted child" or "child prodigy" persona may be able to pull off believably, such as spoon bending, there are other abilities, mindreading for example, that I think demand greater maturity.
As re: Banachek, while he can certainly speak for himself since he is a reader of this forum, it should be borne in mind that when he was involved in Project Alpha as a teen he presented himself as a teen with special "Geller like" paranormal abilities -- a distinctly different persona than the adult mentalist he is today. I expect that he would agree that Project Alpha involved a different level/type of credibility than his current role demands.
Dick Christian
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ThePhilosopher Regular user Menlo Park, CA 122 Posts |
The recent posts about teenagers make me wonder if all newbies are younger. Is there anyone who started doing mentalism as an adult?
I think it is like Mindpro said, "'paying your dues period' that is part of the process." I started as a teenager and had all the problems that were mentioned: lack of maturity, no credibility, no stage presence, etc. Frank mentioned the child prodigy presentation, but I think very few teens would be able to pull that off. If they don't have maturity people will see right through them. Doogie Howser mentalists are few and far between. I agree that a teenager can't be a real mentalist because he lacks all these things, but I am not sure we should discourage them from trying. They just need to be helped to realize what it is all about.
- Nathan
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-09-10 15:57, ThePhilosopher wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I don't think anyone should be discouraged from learning -- as to "trying" IMO that depends on how one defines "trying." I subscribe to the notion that, like wine, no performance should be "served" (in public) before its time.
Dick Christian
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ThePhilosopher Regular user Menlo Park, CA 122 Posts |
Dick, I agree totally, but how do we encourage them to grow if they can't perform? Do you think we should tell them to stick with magic till they develop the others skills necessary?
- Nathan
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
They can begin performing mental magic or magic with a mind theme. And with time, experience and maturity, they can shift later to mentalism.
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
All mentalism begins with self-examination: What do I want the people for whom I perform to think about me and about what I do?
- entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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David Alexander Special user 623 Posts |
Re the idea that Banacheck was a teen - true, as Dick pointed out he was a teen when he was involved in Project Alpha BUT that's a long way from standing in front of a thousand people and working as an entertainer. Banacheck did learn over time how to be a terrific entertainer.
In my long experience I've seen very few teens with any kind of stage presence that I thought made them anything other than competent amateurs. One strong exception was Wayne Houchin who I saw work when he was 19. Wayne had the sort of presence one only sees in people who've been on stage for years. It's a rare thing, indeed. |
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
Quote: And Wayne is a magician, not a mentalist!
On 2010-09-10 18:25, David Alexander wrote:One strong exception was Wayne Houchin who I saw work when he was 19. Wayne had the sort of presence one only sees in people who've been on stage for years. It's a rare thing, indeed. |
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marklock Regular user 151 Posts |
There aren't very many who are 30+ who can command the stage either. I don't think it's about age.
Credibility is challenging for anyone young, so perhaps a good question is "What kind of character and effects are credible for my age?" This is a good thread. |
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David Alexander Special user 623 Posts |
I've seen Wayne do mentalism and he's quite good.
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David Alexander Special user 623 Posts |
An early determination should be: what do I want to do with mentalism?
Is this simply to become a hobbyist to play with it? Is the idea to become a professional entertainer? Different requirements for different goals. Clarify what you want to do or where you want to end up and the answers will be more precise. |
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
Quote: That's my point (as also stated by Mr Dick Christian); Mentalism is not something you decided to do after a card tricks. Wayne Houchin is a magician. Doing mental magic doesn't make him a mentalist.
On 2010-09-10 19:44, David Alexander wrote: Mentalism command a different state of mind between the mentalist ans his audience. |
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-09-10 19:09, marklock wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I never meant to suggest that age was by any stretch of the imagination the ONLY factor -- rather that in addition to many other considerations (e.g., knowledge, experience, showmanship, skill, etc.) maturity and a commanding presence are essential. Few teens have had either the time or opportunity to develop any of those to degree required.
Dick Christian
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David Alexander Special user 623 Posts |
Changed my mind but couldn't delete the post so I edited it blank.
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ThePhilosopher Regular user Menlo Park, CA 122 Posts |
I think we all agree that age itself is not the problem, but it is usually a good indicator for things like maturity, showmanship, and all the other things we mentioned.
Considering the "experience" factor has a lot to do with maturing in mentalism, I think some good questions are "How can I get experience? How can I practice what I have read and am learning? What and when should I perform?" Knowing all the theory is important, but if you can't apply it you are not a mentalist.
- Nathan
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Malchat Special user The Kingdom of Croiset and Wonder 885 Posts |
The problem is asking these questions on an open web forum in the first place.
I love gadgets and being wired 24/7... but nothing, nothing beats finding a mentor and talking shop with experienced performers in the flesh. This is a performance art not an intellectual pursuit - the internet is not going to give you the answers. Switch off, go out, listen, learn, perform, grow. It's not rocket science.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
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