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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
They actually asked me to leave the packages with them and come back later...I returned an hour after and they were still processing them ha!
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product. For those who may be interested, I'll post a review when my copy arrives and I've had a chance to play with it a bit.
Dick Christian
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El Mystico Special user 573 Posts |
Pick up a book.
Not a business book, a novel. Or a book of short stories. Open it up anywhere. Look at a paragraph. Does it start like this, indented? Or is there a gap of a line before it starts? Business books tend to have a gap. But, I'm based in the UK. I have literally hundreds of books; novels and short stories. In not one of them are gaps separated by blank lines. In all of them paragraphs start indented. Looch's booktest has lines between its paragraphs. Now - this may not matter to you. It may well be that your audiences are so unused to reading novels that they do not notice this. But my audiences are literate. And I've been caught before by another booktest which also ignored the convention. Of course, the audience didn't know what the gimmick was. But they knew it wasn't a normal book. Which killed the test for me. I'm not commenting on the cleverness of the technique Looch applies in the booktest. But I know I won't be using it. And want to let others know, so they can make an informed choice about this booktest. NB, in fairness, I'm told some cheap US novels have lines between paragraphs. |
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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
Hi El Mystico
Having just checked with the person responsible for the layout of the booktest, this is his response (parts removed for privacy reasons) In my opinion, a question of style. You either leave a space between paras or indent (although you never indent the first line after a title or crosshead). The convention in novels is frequently to indent in run of text to allow the possibility of using inter-paragraph spaces to illustrate viewpoint or time changes within a chapter. For short stories this is not always necessary. I checked Herbert Rees 'Rules of Printed English', which is the 'bible' on such matters. He doesn't come down on one side or the other. Interestingly, although the preface follows the indent/no-inter-par-space formula, the rest of the book uses spaces between paragraphs. Kind regards
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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S.WARD Loyal user United Kingdom 251 Posts |
Mine arrived and I am very happy with it. Once I have spent the time to script and learn it this will get used a lot. A wonderful piece of work that should have a higher price!
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andykean Special user U.K - Now living in New Zealand Auckland 939 Posts |
Still waiting!
but New Zealand is a long way from home (UK) |
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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
Hi Andy
When ive posted out there before its at least a week. I sent 4 to Australia and one to NZ...You will be the only person in your country using it
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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Sid Helkule Inner circle Australia 1481 Posts |
I find it is usually 2 weeks to me from the UK. Anyhoo, happy to be one of the Aussie four
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Ben Harris V.I.P. The Land Down Under 2126 Posts |
Yeah, 10-14 days to Australia.
Benny
+Inventor of the world famous Floating Match+
+Author: Machinations (Vanishing Inc, 2020)+ EVERYTHING BEN HARRIS |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I've been a typesetter before now in my dim and dusty past...and I have plenty of books that use "lines between paragraphs"...
in fact, go into any charity shop and flick through a few books and I'm willing to bet you good money you'll find a fair few... in fact, the very first novel I grabbed off a shelf just now (clive barker's The ***ation Game) has both indents, and lines between paragraphs...and that sold more than a fair few copies... just sayin'.... EDIT - I'm in the UK too, and in no way affliated with Looch (i happen to think he smells of wasps) and I don't own the book test in question...
I've asked to be banned
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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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El Mystico Special user 573 Posts |
I'll repeat - the page layout may well not be an issue for your audiences.
Iain; yes, there are many books with lines between the paragraphs. It is the standard for business books. I'm talking about novels. You say "go into any charity shop and flick through a few books and I'm willing to bet you good money you'll find a fair few... " Well, there is a charity bookcase where I work. I've just been throuh a shelf of novels. 34 of them. None of them had gaps between the paragraphs (many had a number of 'inter-paragraph spaces to illustrate viewpoint or time changes within a chapter' as Looch's colleague put it - but none of them had, as standard, a gap between all paragraphs). I'm curious. I'm just looking at The sample of the ****ation Game on amazon; I can't see gaps between the paragraphs: http://www.amazon.com/Damnation-Game-Cli......25188930 Again, this may not be an issue for your audiences anyway. |
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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
Dominic, Ive instructed you to return the book to me and I'll kindly reimburse you. I honestly cannot believe you wont use it because it has spaces between pararaphs. Many books and novels do so Im finding it hard to take this seriously but please in the interest of my sanity and keeping the thread on topic (ie the book test...not layout) just send it back and we can all move on.
Kind regards
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
P174, p146, p144, p90 at a cursory flick through...
ISBN - 9 780751 505955 and its the original print daaaaaaaarling, not the reprint..(the original has a much better cover!)... only on here would there be an argument on line spacing in a book, but I had to prove it...i would also cite my edition of The Hobbit (hard back, gold leaf), the Molesworth penguin books, and a few others...
I've asked to be banned
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Oh and I can suggest one idea, if you're really stressing over such a thing..why not scribble some notes in pencil in some of those gaps and make it look like its been used during some kind of english exam? you could add in some psychological forces and other book references then and add even more to the test...
I'm only asking for 20% each time you use that idea...its only fair..
I've asked to be banned
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S.WARD Loyal user United Kingdom 251 Posts |
There is Nothing wrong with this book test! It is ideal for walkabout and fits in the pocket lovely. I really do not see that the layout is an issue.
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El Mystico Special user 573 Posts |
Iain:
I think I understand. You've listed 4 examples of spaces between paragraphs in the Barker book. I suspect these are what Looch's colleague describes as 'inter-paragraph spaces to illustrate viewpoint or time changes within a chapter'. These are, as you say, common. My copies of The Hobbit and the wonderful Molesworth books are the same; they do not have spaces between all paragraphs. Iain - do yours? Or are the spaces just occasional? Because what I'm talking about is that every paragraph in the Looch book has a space. And I have yet to find a novel or book of short stories that has spaces between every paragraph. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. Looch: as you know, I specifically asked you in an email "are there gaps between the paragraphs?" You replied "It's set out exactly as other books in the genre." you say above that you've offered to reimburse me. What you wrote to me was that you would "refund you the money minus the postage." Now, given that I had specifically queried about the paragraph spacing, I don't understand why I should bear the cost of postage. I took the only steps I could to avoid the problem. It was your lie that caused my problem. Why does this matter to me? As I said originally, I know from experience that my audiences will spot that the layout is weird. It would be like handing them a pack of cards without numbers. It may well not be a problem for anyone else here, as I've said several times. And I've explained why. So I think it is bad form to mock me. So; we could be nearly done here. Iain - can you confirm how many of the three books you mentioned have spaces between all the paragraphs? Then Looch can confirm he lied to me about the spacing issue. And offer me a complete refund. Then other people can describe how wonderful this book test is. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Well, from a design point of view (which I am), I can say only this...
all good design is based on consitency, (within the context of uniform "things", such as books and dvd cases) as in, you come up with the house-style for that object and then have at it...most dvd front covers for example use between 1 and 3 different typefaces, but they all fit together and work nicely together... in books, when I've typeset my own books wot I gone dun writted, I have a space between paragraphs too... and, though I don't have every book I own to hand, I do have many books that put that gap in too... from a design point of view, really, if someone handed me a book that used a mixture of "rules", with that spacing issue being discussed here - I would actually be more inclined to look at a book that used a mixture of lines and no lines as to me, that is not a consistent "house-style"... so I would say that the vast majority of people would not care, unless they were just very suspicious people, or worked in a printers who only used one of the many house-styles... I've got the original paperback penguin molesworth books, and they have a mixture of spaces, and indents... if you happen to have people in your audience that are overtly suspicious with something as simple as space/no space - then...i hope they don't work where they print lined index cards too! or, are thumb-experts...
I've asked to be banned
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TheGingerWizard Special user 733 Posts |
This art is built on secrets, Looch happens to (rightly so) take this very seriously. I think that the price of postage (about £1.25) is a fair price for you to have seen the workings of this test, is it not? Ok so it doesn't suit you, I can't argue with that but you have received not only the physical book but some brilliant thinking also.
"Then other people can describe how wonderful this book test is." A nice attempt at making any following positive review lose credibility, well done! After asking people not to mock you too pfft! I have the book test in question and I am delighted with it, my only concern is going to be a getting replacement when it inevitably get tatty through use! El Mystico, If this is the type of thing your audiences have got to think about during your performance maybe that is something to ponder on??? |
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El Mystico Special user 573 Posts |
Hi TheGingerWizard
I look for material I can use. I've already explained that for the audiences I work with, this non-standard layout would be an issue. So I can't use it. So it has no value for me. I've said several times that I'm sure other people will likely not have a problem. That's cool. I really don't understand how my comment would make other reviews lose credibility. I'm just trying to emphasise that the problem will not affect all users. They may find it the best booktest invented. That's cool. As to your last point; I've been performing for thirty years. I've used gimmicked cards, gimmicked pens, gimmicked dice, gimmicked clipboards...all without problem. But a booktest with an odd layout got called on, more than once, with my audiences. I learn. Iain: you didn't say how many of the three books you are talking about have spaces between every paragraph. Interesting: when Nick Morton produced his excellent booktest, his first run had the same mistake. His solution? He quietly and without fuss reset the whole book and reprinted it. |
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