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Muzz
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When hypnotists give certain suggestions they say something like "The coin will get hot, but it won't blister your hand" etc. Does this mean that without this suggestion blisters could actually form on the hand? Doesn't this suggest then that all physical events are mental events? How does that actually work? I know that some people can under go operations without pain relief due to hypnosis but can actual physical manifestations of pain ie/scars, cuts etc be caused by hypnosis? That's mind blowing...
Pakar Ilusi
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I don't think you could get a real blister forming.

Just an adverse reaction if they thought it was blistering that is being sidestepped with that suggestion.

But hey, you never know... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
mindpunisher
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I don't know about performing an effect but blistering has been created in clinical research.

Blistering is physiolgical response to being burnt to protect the damaged area. In theory all these responses are controlled by the unconscious. Therefore if it accepts the suggestion it will respond as if the body has been burnt.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-19 14:39, mindpunisher wrote:
I don't know about performing an effect but blistering has been created in clinical research.

Blistering is physiolgical response to being burnt to protect the damaged area. In theory all these responses are controlled by the unconscious. Therefore if it accepts the suggestion it will respond as if the body has been burnt.


Wow! Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
jesselewis
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Actually in very deep levels of trance a person could blister it has been well documented that hypnosis works to control bleeding heart rate even things like blood pressure.
We are using a powerful tool the mind controls our reality.
Anthony Jacquin
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Minpunisher can you point me to the 'clinical research' where blistering was created with hypnosis?

Thanks

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

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Anthony Jacquin
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I had only read anecdotal reports hence my question. Some fishing found this paper.

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi....../233.pdf

Enjoy

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
mindpunisher
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Was many years ago I read about it in a medical book. Can't remember the name of it. And also was mentioned hypnotherapy courses I attended.

Personally I don't go too deep into the research side (academia)I personally find it boring. I mainly use hypnosis for peformance enhancement which has more to do with creativity than heavy research.

I did go through a phase of research I just can't be bothered these days.
Owen Mc Ginty
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I read somewhere that blisters can produced with hypnosis, can´t for the life of me remember where though. Could it be in Ormond McGills "new enyclopedia of stage hypnotism" ? I only have a few books, but maybe I read it after trawling through loads of internet sites whilst trying to find info on hypnosis.
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
kissdadookie
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I think theoretically it could be possible to mentally induce a physical blister. If one can get a skin rash purely from stress or other mental pressure, surely one can mentally induce a physical blister.

As usual, better to be safe than sorry so it's your responsibility to build in safety measures regardless if it's really necessary for such measures.
Anansi
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How about this:


Dr. Albert Moll (1862-1939)

The Symptoms of Hypnosis Part 20


Jendrassik and Krafft-Ebing obtained marks like burns on one of their subjects by means of suggestion. If some object, such as a match-box, a pair of scissors, a snuff-box, a linen stamp, etc., was pressed upon the skin "in the morning, and the subject was at the same time told that his skin was being burned, a blister in the form of the object resulted in the afternoon. The marks remained a long time visible. If the object was pressed on the left side of a patient who was anaesthetic on the right, the burn appeared symmetrically on the right almost as if reflected in a glass, as could be especially seen if letters were used. Jendrassik maintains that deception was absolutely excluded in these cases of suggested burns; and a dermatologist, Lipp, at one of the experiments, declared that it would be impossible to cause the suggested lesion by any artificial means, either mechanical or chemical. Burns by suggestion have often been observed in the Salpetriere. Pierre Janet experi-mented on a patient who showed wounds like those of Christ. Schrenck-Notzing also observed that a wound which this same patient had in the cardiac region bled on Good Friday. In one case Janet suggested stigmatization of the right instep; the skin turned red at the spot suggested, and a blister followed which healed by scabbing.

Der Hypnotismus (German Edition) by Albert Moll (available on Amazon in English, though originally published around 1889.

and contrary to that, there are a few threads on the Randi forums where no one can find any modern controlled experiments giving instances of this phenomena.


I am now working on a stigmata routine!
If, as it suggests Smile that the blister takes a few hours to form but will take on the shape of whatever you place on the subject's arm, think of the possibilities for pre-show!
"and your selected card is the four of diamonds- that's curious- look on your left forearm"....
Smile
What d'ya think Ant? Something for Kev to try?

Ian.
ars est celare artem
catweazle
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I think the main reason hypnotists state that it wont burn, is to reassure the subject,so that they will actually hold the coin etc.

It wouldn't be that hard to try out, its only a small blister so there must be a hypnotist and subject somewhere that's willing to give it a go!

C'mon guy's, what's the worst that could happen, get accused of assault by a willing volunteer? (just don't try it in the public domain)

Maybe Chris Harding from Alakazam would be up for it, he's certainly a somnambulist.

one of the things Hypnotism is often 'written off' as is as a placebo, which to me seems strange - placebo's are so powerful they are used as a comparison in clinical trails of new drugs to prove their efficacy, and on that basis I believe the mind does control the body to a certain degree, I can certainly think of times where the placebo effect has worked on me though I'm not so sure about blisters without some sort of physical trauma.

The more I think about it the more I can reason that it would be possible, I'm just not sure how much of the body's response is due to the subconcious as opposed to say localised physiological response such as trauma.
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2010-09-20 14:41, catweazle wrote:
I'm just not sure how much of the body's response is due to the subconcious as opposed to say localised physiological response such as trauma.


The simplest demonstration of this is having a rash appear out of nowhere due to stress. That's as direct a demonstration of the mind creating a genuine physical reaction that would have otherwise needed physical irritants to produce. Let's for argument sake say that through pure psychological means, a blister/boil is impossible to produce. How about a localized rash or something akin to hives? Right there (even though much more minor compared to an actual blister) if your subject ends up having such a reaction shortly after and you did not include in your script something along the lines of "it's going to get warmer than you think so as soon as you feel it, drop it as I do not want your burning yourself" or "it's going to get burning hot but while you will feel the sensation, it will not actually burn you," you're in a world of liability issues. Better safe than sorry.

This is similar reasoning behind proper wake ups. If you've put them under and did not openly bring them back out and use specific wording, any adverse affect they may feel later on they can easily come back and point the finger at you even if in reality you actually had nothing to do with it.

So, in the end, a legit blister/boil may not be possible (or it may be) but some sort of physiological outbreak can very possibly occur due to chemicals which may be released through psychological means.
Zerububle
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Blistering is not possible as the reaction is only partially created by the subconscious. The sub reacts to the burn. It cannot create the burn in the sense of how excessive heat alters the skin on a cellular level. Rashes etc are a result of blood flow and/or burst capillaries.

Mindpunisher may have misread or misremembered this info

Bubble
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2010-09-20 15:51, Zerububle wrote:
Rashes etc are a result of blood flow and/or burst capillaries.


There's also other causes for rashes and hives such as release of histamine which can be psychologically induced without the presence of physical irritants (thus hives and rashes which sometimes present themselves when one is stressed).
Zerububle
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Agreed. And well corrected Smile

My point being that you still need actual heat (I.e a flame) to burn flesh to cause blistering, or indeed chemicals. Although the body creates some quite excellent acids for the digestive system, it can't ferry said acids up to the surface.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2010-09-20 15:51, Zerububle wrote:
Blistering is not possible as the reaction is only partially created by the subconscious. The sub reacts to the burn. It cannot create the burn in the sense of how excessive heat alters the skin on a cellular level. Rashes etc are a result of blood flow and/or burst capillaries.

Mindpunisher may have misread or misremembered this info

Bubble


I do remember that it stated blisters can be caused with hypnosis. I have no idea if its true or not since I haven't tried it. I have read of hypnosis curing warts and stopping periods for performing female ballet dancers. It was all in this thick book on medical hypnosis.

Burning or damaging the skin doesn't cause blisters. Its the "reaction" to it. Heart beat, blood flow are all regulated by the unconscious so at least in theory its possible. Healing its self is an unconscious response.Healing can be accelerated after invasive surgery using hypnosis. I knew someone many years ago who worked with surgeons in hospital and they were so impressed the doctors trained in hypnotherapy.

So I think its plausable but I can't say for sure.
catweazle
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Blisters just contain plasma, so if the mind can fool the body into creating histamine, why not localised plasma???
catweazle
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Try it!!!

In the name of science of course!
mindpunisher
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Its not something that really interests me. However I used to suffer from hayfever very badly. I tried all the antihistamines going for years. None worked they made me ill and I still had the symptoms.

The only thing that gave me relief was self hypnosis and NLP anchoring for allergies.

My doctor told me it was impossible and kept prattling on about antihistamines which never ever worked for me.

I don't know if there is clinical evidence that hypnosis can aleviate hayfever only that it helped me while clinically "proven" drugs made me worse.

Hypnosis isn't a science its an art.
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