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JonChase
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Injuries etc...

There's a lot of hypnosis about now. Way more than a decade or so ago, and I get a lot of people writing to me asking just how dangerous hypnosis physically.

There is only one verifiable case of a broken leg occurring on stage in the UK during a stage hypnosis show in 1994 in Corby in Northamptonshire in the UK. Admittedly it was a particularly nasty one, a reticular fracture of the femur. That's a corkscrew of the bone and with the femur bleeding to death with such a break is a real possibility. And it was bad trust me I know. It was my show!

I also had a young lad once split his nose open with a hand-bell when he was being Quasimodo. Bleed like a stuck pig but after being cleaned up he shrugged, said it was about typical for a Saturday night and came back on stage with a plaster on his nose. [Bandaid]

When the British government down graded stage hypnosis from being mildly worrying to no more dangerous than walking down the street in it's review of the 1952 hypnotism act, a Government funded research group found about 12 reports of headaches after a show and, apart from the odd scrapes and grazes you are bound to get when hundreds of people are on stage every week, nothing more or as serious as the above leg bust could be found.

Now in another post there is mention of all this bad stuff happening to physically harm people but, if it's that bad then why is it impossible to actually find the cases of hypnotists being sued or banned? I am aware there was something recently in the states but if we look at the record hypnosis is easily as safe as fire eating or knife throwing.

And if you want to know what happened with the femur, just ask.
Smiles

Jon Chase



http://jonathanchase.com
catweazle
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What happened with the femur?

Its a good reason to enrol on a first aid course, including CPR, if you want to be professional about things, and get insurance
Dannydoyle
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As safe as fire eating? Wow our newest guru has spoken.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Your not very well informed Jon. Robert Halper in the early 90s had no insurance when a volunteer fell off stage and broke her hip. The venue got sued for around 90k.

At the time I was performing another well known hypnotist was being sued for an incedent whereby someone dived off a table believing to be a world champion swimmer. They seriously damaged their neck.
kissdadookie
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Jon, there's very little occurrences of physical injury maybe simply due to the simple fact that the WORKING hypnotists are mostly (if not all) properly trained? Most if not all of them in the US also have some kind of accreditation from some hypnosis training group for insurance purposes. Even with the most basic and introductory training, they do emphasize safety measures one should take when hypnotizing. If this "injuries discussion" was brought up in reference to that other post in which the question was if one could go out and hypnotize without properly learning about hypnosis and instead just run around "zapping" people, then you would remember that it wasn't a question of if hypnosis is truly dangerous and more so a question of is it safe for people to go out hypnotizing others without having a full grasp of all the what ifs that comes with hypnotizing. Better safe than sorry.

As for the safety of fire eating and knife throwing, do you have ANY idea how hard these performers have worked to PREVENT accidents? Do you honestly think they just go out one day, learn how to eat fire in an hour and then go around deeming themselves a fire eater booking shows? There's no shortcuts for it, you work for your goal. Yes of course it's relatively safe for what fire eats and knife throwers do but then again, they've also went through proper training and practice.
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2010-09-26 12:20, kissdadookie wrote:
As for the safety of fire eating and knife throwing, do you have ANY idea how hard these performers have worked to PREVENT accidents? Do you honestly think they just go out one day, learn how to eat fire in an hour and then go around deeming themselves a fire eater booking shows?

That's fairly much how I did it. Siphoned petrol from my car, and did a big blow-out on a stage at a variety show. After the show a fire-eater with more experience told me the pros use paraffin rather then petrol, and that ended my formal training.
I have had a few burns, but nothing serious. But I agree fire-eating and knife-throwing (I haven't done that yet) are more dangerous physically than hypnosis.
mindpunisher
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Only if you forget to spit ans swallow!
catweazle
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I thought fire eating and fire breathing were too different techniques, hate to get it mixed up.
kissdadookie
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Tony, you learned it on the spot and went out to perform it? That's ballsy.
mindpunisher
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Tony is mental..... whatever you do don't volunteer for his first knife throwing attempt..
kissdadookie
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Well, fire eating I guess the only person you're most likely to hurt is yourself but fire breathing definitely has some additional precautions one needs to learn and understand. Much of it falls into the realm of common sense but common sense as we know is really not that common.
mindpunisher
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Here just a few documented physical injuries sent to me by Alex Leroy

01) Documented by UK National Press - Ann Hazard Fell off stage and broke her leg at Glasgow Pavillion during one of Robert Halpherns Shows when he told her to go to the toilet the quickest way possible and she just walked off the stage (hence his negligence)

02) Andrew Newton had someone fall off stage and break their leg at Liverpool Royal Court Theatre in the 80's.

03) Peter Powers had someone blow their thumb apart after using a powerful blank firing gun in a James Bond Sketch at a Liverpool Theatre Show.

that's just the tip of the iceberg, I'm aware of many other occurences but the fact the "names" have had it occur says it all..
Anthony Jacquin
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So none of the reported cases of injury have anything to do with the hypnotizing element of the show. They are just due to negligence of stage safety management and underestimation of the power of blanks.

Phew. Stop Press. Using your imagination is safe when done with help and care. Putting yourself into the hands of the unhinged is still not recommended.
Anthony Jacquin

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mindpunisher
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They are injuries sustained while in hypnosis.
The Halpern case was a direct cause of not making a suggestion clear enough.

Everybody makes that mistake ocasionally. Without proper training it is far more likely. And more dangerous in a public place. If you dig around you will find lots of incidents related to hypnosis. But if you want to argue its totally safe and anyone should just jump in without even knowing how to manage hypnosis which is what Jon is saying then I guess there is nothing anyone can say to change your point of view so I'm not going to bother.

Go ahead.

I know personally over the years I have had a few frightening moments. Especially when I first started.
mindpunisher
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As for accidents etc in USA, Chase clearly does not keep up to speed either check out http://www.thehypnosiscompany.com/safety/

Justin James (with help form Richad Nongard and Tom Silver an others) sorted this site out.

BECAUSE it became next to impossible for them to get insurance due to the large number of successful claims for injury that had been brough against USA based hypnotists.
mindpunisher
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I think this email I recieved is of interest to the thread....


Stage & Street Hypnosis are indeed potentially VERY DANGEROUS, even Andrew Newton (The Man Who Taught Paul McKenna) admits and explains such in his book "All In The Mind".

In the book "Investigating Stage Hypnosis" by Traccie O Keefe and Katrina Fox there are numerous cases dicsussed of people suffering both Physical, Psychological and Emotional Harm at the hands of Stage Hypnotists.

Read "Investigating Stage Hypnosis" first and then read Andrew Newtons book and you'll no doubt agree that essentially according to Newtons information, the vast majority of the cases discussed in Tracie O Keefes book were indeed most likely caused as a result of stage hypnosis.

And everyone involved in the current trend of impromtu/street should be aware that these were mainly psychological, physical and emotional injuries caused by being hypnotised and/or the actual post hypnotic suggestions given by the hypnotist.

Read Andrew Newton's book and then honestly tell us that Stage/Street Hypnosis is not potentially very dangerous.

Indeed another book you'd be well advised to read is "Practising Safe Hypnosis" by Roger Hambleton. He is now A Hypnotist who once worked as a Barrrister and knows what he is talking about, read it and discover the TRUTH about the Paul McKenna versus Chris Gates Schizophremia case.

Essentially the Court ruled that MOST LIKELY THE HYPNOSIS DID INSTIGATE MR GATES SCHIZOPHRENIA...

However All people seem to know and remember is that McKenna was found NOT GUILTY of negligence which is indeed True, h was not guilty and so coud not be prosecuted as he'd done all required in law and ensured suggestions were cancelled out, pre-talks given all health and safety laws followed etc.

However Read "Practising Safe Hypnosis" and then take a look at videos by the growing band of UK Street Hypnotists and it becomes clear that had one of them been in McKennas position then they most likely would have been found GULITY of negligence, as they don't do the correct pre-talk, are unlicensed, unisured, don't abide by the Health & Safety Executives Laws (eg proper risk assesments and such like) and in the main are not trained to a high enough standard..

Yes indeed Stage/Street Hypnosis is potentially very dangerous, especially in the hands of those with no regard for the laws, licensing, insurance or legal health and safety obligations etc.

Oh and Remember Phil Daemon (Phillip Green) another example of a Hypnotist being found guility of Negligence and causing harm through hypnosis - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-......ist.html
Anthony Jacquin
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Quote:
On 2010-09-27 06:09, mindpunisher wrote:
They are injuries sustained while in hypnosis.
The Halpern case was a direct cause of not making a suggestion clear enough.


Yes. 'You will use the steps'. Nothing to do with hypnosis just stage management. That is why I have an assistant take them to the steps just in case they are too busy looking out for their friends to note where the steps are.

All the inherent dangers of any act on stage or the street need to be catered for. I have always maintained that. As the goverment review made clear upon consultation with the busiest hypnotists in the country at the time the dangers are mostly the same for any stage act.

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

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mindpunisher
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Guns aren't dangerous either. Its the people who use them.

Here is a frightening story from an ex stage hypnotist that could happen anytime anywhere.

"Once at a Butlin's holiday camp, right at the start of a show I dropped this man into instant trance. A few minutes later I said, "Wakey wakey, what are you doing down there lying on the floor?"
The young man, around the age of 30, leapt to his feet, turned to the person next to him, and put his hands around the person's throat in an attempt to strangle him! I quickly intervened with the word "Sleep", and the subject fell back to the floor in a trance. I quickly gave suggestions of inner confidence, ego hypnosis causing psychosisboosting, and suggestions of peace-of-mind and well-being. I then awoke him and he returned back to the audience. All this happened within a few minutes, the audience didn't really know what was happening and I had a show to perform. Unfortunately the story doesn't end there. Immediately after I had finished the show there were further problems with this individual. He had turned insane, and was acting like a madman thinking he was a soldier. He was out to kill, and not to be captured.
Due to the strong emotional content I would rather not recall this story in detail, but will say that it was a very frightening experience for myself and the other people involved. Luck being on my side the situation was resolved, and the young man concerned spent the night in a local hospital.
He had already been bordering on the verge of psychosis, and the hypnosis had acted like a trigger. That night driving home, I was in a state of shock. Nothing had ever happened like this before. My main concern was for the young man, and also how could I avoid something like this ever happening again? The answer was, I couldn't. There is no way that you can tell whether a volunteer is bordering on a level of psychosis or neurosis. If a person is bordering on the level of psychosis, then hypnosis can be the trigger that fires them into insanity. I have hypnotized thousands of people, and fortunately have had only a few casualties that I am aware of. Even one casualty is one too many."


http://www.dangers-of-hypnosis.co.uk/hyp......sis.html

Its clear that there are dangers associated with hypnosis. Even if its not the hypnosis directly itself. If something like the above happens in a public place theres a good chance it will make the press. And if you don't have the correct insurance license etc... You better get a lawyer.
Anthony Jacquin
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He wasn't in a trance. His psychosis was unrelated to his hypnosis he could just as easily have gone bonkers in a traffic jam. Can you show me any evidence that 'hypnosis can be the trigger that fires people into insanity'?

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
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mindpunisher
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Its not up to me to find evidence...or get you to my point of view. There is more than enough evidence in this thread if you want to pursue it. If you want to ingore it that's your choice. Im not going to attempt to change your mind.

Put yourself in the hypnotists shoes above but on the street with no licence no insurance and not adhering to the guidellines.

There are prominent experts who believe that the above is "likely to have connection with hypnosis". While I agree with you about going bonkers anywhere it is likely that you will be sued for neglegence.

Plus it would make a nice media story. And things would change regarding hypnosis and enforcing the law after.

Come to your own conclusions.
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