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mindpunisher
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Beach etc are part of the light stage that is essential for conditioning. You can't get away from it. There are only a very li mited number of things you can do. But its not what you do its the volunteers responses.

I don't worry about being original I worry about creating unique moments through milking the volunteers. Find ing the best ones and promting them to g o off on their own "trips".

I do a few things that I don't know if anybody else is doing but I do them because they are funny not to be original. I really love the half time in the bar area if I'm doing a theatre.

Even with different skits its still basically the same half a dozen or more responses from the volunteers. Its the responses that make the show not really the skits.

So it doesn't really matter how you get them.

Plus of course the responses from the audience.

I think too many people get hung up on originality and should just focus on being themselves on stage.
bobser
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In reply to my question of "would you take the offer of training 30 guys each month at £100 per head",Robert Temple wrote:
"no I don't think I would. Why? Because quite frankly I really don't need the money and I do hypnosis for a business/living..."
[/quote]

Ok Robert, what if it's a serious offer of 50 people per month at £250 each? That's £150,000 for 12 weekends work per year.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
kissdadookie
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Hmmm, 250 pounds sounds pretty low though for in person training.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2010-10-10 18:29, bobser wrote:
In reply to my question of "would you take the offer of training 30 guys each month at £100 per head",Robert Temple wrote:
"no I don't think I would. Why? Because quite frankly I really don't need the money and I do hypnosis for a business/living..."


Ok Robert, what if it's a serious offer of 50 people per month at £250 each? That's £150,000 for 12 weekends work per year.
[/quote]

Bobser where are these guys? What is the point you are trying to make? If I were going to train anyone in anything I would aim for 10 @ £600 so even If I only got 4 I'd still make nearly 2k after paying the hotel. Plus the training would be much more beneficial to those attending.

I would like to simplify this whole argument because I think there is still a lot of confusion.

First of all a hypnotist uses hypnosis regardless of whether its on stage, impromtu or planned in a street. Its hypnosis right? No one is safer because of the venues or the contexts. Are you with me so far Bobser?

Criteria that makes hypnosis unsafe is - Badly trained hypnotists, unskilled hypnotists, bad attitude towards safety and health, unwillingness to go through proper procedures...and uncontrollable environments...

Now all of these dangers apply to all forms of hypnotists. Stage street or impromptu.
For the same reasons that just because someone does stage hypnosis doesn't mean hes safe the same reason applies to the other two. You get me?

However it far more likely that the danger criteria will apply to those with little or no training who do not follow the proper procedures or respect the law. Because in this group you will by far find the most "hypnotists" that meet the danger criteria. Irrespective if they practice stage street or impromtu.

Therefore regulation of some kind is a good thing. Obviously the government believes the same although in my experience human nature as it is things are enforced to a max usually when there is a problem. We aren't at that staage in the cycle of hypnosis yet. We are still at the early start. Wgho knows perhaps it won't mature and dwindle instead. But lrets suppose its going to get more popular even if its the impromtu/street phenomena that grows. And not the stage.

Now of course you will have heard about stage horror stories because stage has been on the go forever and by a huge huge magin has had the most hypnotists and people hypnotised. The street phenomena trend is still in its early stages of growth.

But if things grow (and perhaps they won't)then it is just a matter of time before we hear stories in the other two catagories emerge.

And putting law aside for a moment. The big thing that many profesional hypnotists that work in this country that follow all the procedures to make things as safe as possible and stay on the right side of the law don't want is a repeat of the media onslaught that killed the industry the last time.

And that doesn't matter if they are stage street or impromtu. Anyone who goes out into the public with the danger criteria especially ALL the criteria is a danger to the industry. And especially the current trend which "seems" to be growing.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-10-09 22:14, mindpunisher wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-09 21:45, dmkraig wrote:
LOL!
MP is so angry that I stand up to his bullying that he literally makes up things to disagree with me over.
1) I never said for years you could get stage hypnosis insurance. I even stated why it's difficult to get it.
2) I did NOT give any advice about working in the UK.
3) I realize your statement "Robert is telling you how it is do we need to write 1000s of insurance companies just to satisfy your strange mind?" uses English words, but it makes no sense. My comment was that there was NO WAY he could have contacted them all in one morning, as he claimed to have done.
4) I commented on why it was obvious there were few insurance companies for stage hypnosis, not that it should be easy to find others.
5) I was not commenting about working conditions in the UK. I was commenting on the misrepresentation of one person's post and why there are few insurance companies that provide such insurance.

So let's see. MP completely misrepresented what I posted. He LIED, again, and falsely claimed that I was giving an opinion or advice about working conditions in the UK. He then said I should "try and make useful sensible posts."

I would suggest that you get your head out of its current location, try reading, and see if you can do what you request of others.

It's a shame that you're so insecure and filled with hate that you have to make up things to attack other people over.


craig your hallucinating again. Bullying? Angry?


Yep. Yep.

[/quote]What have I made up? Can you point to one thing that's been made up? {/quote]

I listed FIVE different things you claimed I stated and you made them all up. Every one of them. Geez! yer so angry if I agree with something you say you'll say I was wrong!

[quote]Your the one that claims hypnosois mp3s are dangerous one minute and untrained street hypnotists are completely safe. Show me one case of an mp3 hurting someone?{/quote]

Please provide the URL where I have claimed that MP3s of any sort are "dangerous."
Please provide the URL where I have claimed that "street hypnotists are completely safe."

Here are two more lies you've made up. If you provide the URLs I'll apologize publicly to everyone here and state I was in error. But the fact is...YOU'RE LYING. AGAIN.

Quote:
Another yank that knows nothing about this country or the working conditions putting his nose for reasons I have no idea. Angry? Not really Bewildered perhaps.


And yet another lie. I talk about insurance and the way it works around the world and he thinks I'm talking about UK working conditions. You're like the state bird of Minnesota. Are you sure you're not Screaming Lord Sutch in disguise?

Quote:
I hate to say this


Another lie. If you hate to say something...DON'T SAY IT.

Quote:
but actually I can't wait till an accident happens.


Wonderful. Now you're saying you WANT PEOPLE TO GET HURT. What a wonderful person you are...NOT.

Quote:
Im finished on this subject.


We can only hope. Smile

Quote:
Obviously there are some on here that will never get it. And there others on here that are complete bonkers.


When liars and bullies (who say things like if you dare disagree with me then you're a _______ fill in the insult) like MP are shown up for what they are, they frequently just run away and go home.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-10-09 22:15, kissdadookie wrote:
Dmkraig,

I think that here in the US it is very much a monetary thing. Folks who make careers out of hypnosis for entertainment tend to work the collge circuit where the $$$ is (smart choice) while others are simply hobbyists or uses elements of hypnosis in other fields like magic or mentalism (but not to the incredible extent of the type of material on the Manchurian). I pretty much thought that the UK street hypnotists would be more like street magicians, in other words, less about $$$ and more about personal enjoyment as well as entertaining folks just for the sake of entertaining people.


I think you're right. There are some stage hypnotists who do clubs (very few) and some who do cruises. There are also some who are hypnotherapists who do stage work to supplement their income and get additional clients.

Quote:
Now, if what you're concerned about is those folks stupid enough to go around "zapping" people, you can't really blame the folks like Anthony and their learning material because they DON'T teach you such barbaric techniques.


Whoa! Hold on there, Speed Racer! I mentioned "Zap" because of that video. I have not said anything against Anthony. I believe my review of RIP may still be available on this site.

Quote:
All in all, I'm not one who stands at any of the two ends of the extremes for street/impromptu hypnotism. I think the facts should just be laid out with honest views on possible dangers and precautions but done so in a non-exaggerated manner. Yes there are dangers to hypnosis but when explaining these dangers, the explanations have to be more grounded in reality as opposed to just assuming that it's a massive car crash just waiting to happen.


I have nothing against street/impromptu hypnosis. I've studied it and been trained in it (by Brian David Phillips). I just don't see any value to it. I also don't see any value in playing Magic: The Gathering, either. I've got nothing against it. Just for me, there's no great value.

I would respectfully disagree with you concerning the "dangers of hypnosis." If it's as dangerous as some people are saying here, where's the evidence? I'll grant you that there is danger from idiot and ill-trained hypnotists, but that doesn't make hypnosis any more inherently dangerous than a drunk driver makes a car in another county inherently dangerous.

That means--and I think we'd agree--that people should be trained in hypnosis to do hypnosis, not merely watch some video. It used to be that there were some hypnotists who I call "IROBs" (I Read One Book and now I'm an expert). Today there are some who should be called "IWOVs" (I Watched One Video and now I'm an expert).

I believe that as hypnotists we have an obligation to speak out against those who are ill-trained and would give our profession (or, for some, hobby) a bad name.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-10-09 23:02, mindpunisher wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-09 18:04, catweazle wrote:
I can say this as a spectator -...


For one thing Edinburgh is probably the biggest festival in the world and is where MANY of today's acts got their start. Your getting it mixed up with Glasgow go read posts will you...


Hmmm, a post from MP consisting of 700 words exactly one post after saying, "Im finished on this subject."

Yet another lie.
kissdadookie
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You've misread my post in regards to Anthony there dmkraig, I was pointing out how Anthony DOESN'T teach silly and ridiculous things like Zap! Smile

Also, when did I say there were dangers to hypnosis? My car crash comparison was that if it really was like an inevitable car crash, why hasn't it happened yet? If it hasn't happened yet then the odds are that it's not going to happen any time in my life time or the life time after that or the one after that, etc. In other words, your chances of dying in a crash is much much much higher.

I don't know if you're lacking sleep or you just didn't care to actually process what you were reading because you've fashioned up some pretty ridiculous things in response to my post which were way off the mark there dmkraig, lol.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-10-10 14:00, bobser wrote:... pro stage hypnotists are watching amateurs learning everything they know without spending a couple grand etc.
In all fairness I actually understand all of that. To learn magic was once upon a time almost impossible pre The Internet. And Hypnosis was exactly the same. But it is what it is.



As you wrote, "It is what it is."
The thing is, there's a big difference between hit-and-run impromptu hypnosis and being a stage hypnotist. Being the latter requires stage presence, the ability to come up with skits, etc. In the end, people don't come to see hypnosis, they come to see a SHOW. Hypnosis is only the means to the entertainment, not the entertainment itself.

I believe it was MP who has previously complained about poor hypnotists making stage hypnosis unpopular. It will put the less talented, less entertaining performers out of work.

Competition always does that.

But hundreds or thousands of 14-year-old boys pulling silks from a square circle haven't put Angel or Copperfield out of business.

IMO good performers should never be afraid of competition. They should use competition to encourage themselves to improve and not stagnate.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-10-10 22:20, kissdadookie wrote:
You've misread my post in regards to Anthony there dmkraig, I was pointing out how Anthony DOESN'T teach silly and ridiculous things like Zap! Smile

Also, when did I say there were dangers to hypnosis? My car crash comparison was that if it really was like an inevitable car crash, why hasn't it happened yet? If it hasn't happened yet then the odds are that it's not going to happen any time in my life time or the life time after that or the one after that, etc. In other words, your chances of dying in a crash is much much much higher.

I don't know if you're lacking sleep or you just didn't care to actually process what you were reading because you've fashioned up some pretty ridiculous things in response to my post which were way off the mark there dmkraig, lol.


I apologize for misreading your post where you seemed to be saying that I was accusing Anthony of doing those things. I guess the part where you wrote, "you can't really blame the folks like Anthony and their learning material because they DON'T teach you such barbaric techniques" confused me as I wasn't blaming him or other responsible people.

Similarly, I apologize for misreading you implying that hypnosis was dangerous. I guess the part where you wrote, "Yes there are dangers to hypnosis but when explaining these dangers, the explanations have to be more grounded in reality as opposed to just assuming that it's a massive car crash just waiting to happen" confused me. It seems to be saying that you think there are dangers to hypnosis because that's what you wrote.


Yeah, not getting enough sleep can bother me, especially when I quote people who say they didn't write what they just wrote. Smile
kissdadookie
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Dangers implied the stage and audience management dangers Smile

I went back and reread my post, I should have made it clearer, apart from the first paragraph, the rest was directed at MP Smile
RobertTemple
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Bobser, quite frankly no I still wouldn't be interested. My hypnosis show business and my secondary business between them provide me with a great income without having to spend time teaching other people hypnosis.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2010-10-10 22:47, kissdadookie wrote:
Dangers implied the stage and audience management dangers Smile

I went back and reread my post, I should have made it clearer, apart from the first paragraph, the rest was directed at MP Smile


You can't separate mamanagement dangers from mental. But they obviously both exist. And we haven;t mentioned the dangers of mentally unstable hypnotists. I think you only have to look at some of the ramblings of Craig to get an indication of the possibility. And Zap is a general term for running around and hypnotising people impromtu Bobser uses it all the time.

Now it seems like those that do this just can't get the concept of doing things legally safely or that to flood the market with cheap products encouraging those that buy them to ignore the law safety is bad for everyone. Wich really says it all.

Those that sell these products are raping the "art". And are the ones who will eventually end it altogether.

One bad accident in this country and you can kiss goodbye to any chance of a comeback for hypnosis.

But I feel I will be moving away from stage hypnosis completely for the same reasons I wouldn't do psychic fayres. Its full of dangerous nuts I don't want to be associated with. And its probably going to be the same for hypnosis pretty soon. I see it on here already.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2010-10-11 03:55, RobertTemple wrote:
Bobser, quite frankly no I still wouldn't be interested. My hypnosis show business and my secondary business between them provide me with a great income without having to spend time teaching other people hypnosis.


LOL, Y'know Robert I have no idea why you're even considering employing a comedy writer. That answer was hilarious!
But fair play to you, I think it's time I surrendered and wished you nothing but the best. In all fairness I have to confess you do come across as an excellent stage hypnotist and I think you're going to do really well in the future.

Bob.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
RobertTemple
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Lol, I'm not sure what you find hilarious about the answer.

But thanks for the compliment.. I'll certainly be around for a long time to come yet ;-)
catweazle
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Bobser, you should of just looked on Roberts web site, he clearly states...

"13. How do you learn to be a hypnotist?
I sought hands-on training by a leading hypnotist and this seems to me to be the most effective way. I am available to teach a few select candidates and would only teach one each year."

And on whether hypnosis is safe, I think we have the answer, again taken from Roberts web site...

"1. Is Hypnosis Dangerous?
No. The answer is as short and direct as that. No, hypnosis is not dangerous. It is a perfectly natural state of mind. People are sometimes afraid that may be they won't wake up or will be left mentally scarred and affected. The truth is that hypnosis is really just a deep sleep.

Sometimes people are enjoying hypnosis that much that they just end up drifting into ordinary sleep. When hypnotised you are still fully concious of everything that goes on around you and you cannot be made to do or say anything that would contradict your everyday morals and beliefs."

http://www.comedyhypnosis.co.uk/faq.html

And that really should be the end of this thread.
dmkraig
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[quote]On 2010-10-11 04:52, mindpunisher wrote:

You can't separate mamanagement dangers from mental.{/quote]

No. YOU can't separate them. Intelligent people can.

Quote:
But they obviously both exist.


I have repeatedly said that there are dangers from people who don't watch out for the safety of the performers. However, if mental "dangers" exist, WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? I don't mean theories from a bunch of old men with beards or from people with too much time on their hands. Where are the streams of people going to psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors because they participated in a hypnosis show?

Quote:
And we haven;t mentioned the dangers of mentally unstable hypnotists. I think you only have to look at some of the ramblings of Craig to get an indication of the possibility. And Zap is a general term for running around and hypnotising people impromtu Bobser uses it all the time.


So where are all the victims of your supposed mentally unstable hypnotists?

I don't even see victims from outright liars like yourself who misquote, misrepresent, then say they're not going to write any more on a forum and follow it with five more posts?

Oops....That would be you.

[quote]Now it seems like those that do this just can't get the concept of doing things legally safely or that to flood the market with cheap products encouraging those that buy them to ignore the law safety is bad for everyone. Wich really says it all.[quote]
Oops! Talk about mentally disturbed. Let's change the subject and go back to MP's bugaboo of "cheap products," even though he hasn't produced even ONE such item, nor has he shown that such non-existant items are a problem to anyone except him. Look up "obsession" in the dictionary and you'll find MP as a model.

Quote:
One bad accident in this country and you can kiss goodbye to any chance of a comeback for hypnosis.


If it's such a problem, WHERE ARE ALL THE VICTIMS?

Quote:
But I feel I will be moving away from stage hypnosis completely for the same reasons I wouldn't do psychic fayres. Its full of dangerous nuts I don't want to be associated with. And its probably going to be the same for hypnosis pretty soon. I see it on here already.


Sounds to me like you belong at "psychic fayres."
kissdadookie
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Can other UK based folks on here confirm what MP said was true in regards to "zap" being the common term used or street/impromptu hypnotists? I thought the commonly used term was "bosh" in the UK. Every time someone says "zap" it just appears to be referencing the Zap video put out by Penguin Magic (and we all know that video was pretty much a load of bs).
mindpunisher
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Yawn what a couple of clowns..

Both of yu can we please see a video of you performing? I really could do with a laugh. But probably for all he wrong reasons.

I doubt we will ever see any though.
kissdadookie
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What the hell did I say this time to upset you (yet again) MP? I just wanted to learn some of the UK vernacular. What's the worse that could happen, that you're fibbing again? No harm in that and not really much of a surprise in that case.
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