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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-10-12 22:15, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Of course, if Hussein had followed the terms of the ceasefire and provided the access that the inspectors were supposed to have, then there would have been more evidence and less speculation.

It's sort of like if I get arrested and released on parole, and the terms of my parole agreement are that the police can search my house whenever they want. Then they come to search, and I tell them they can look in the kitchen, living room, and bedrooms, but not in the bathroom. Then they break down the door to the bathroom, and then I cry that they shouldn't have done that because they didn't have any proof that anything was there.


Now, I'm not defending Saddam, but what right did the usa have to tell him he couldn't build weapons in the first place?


That may depend on your view of preventative maintenance. My understanding is that you'd agree that Kuwait had the right to use force to repel the invasion from Iraq, and that, furthermore, they had the right to "assign" their right to self-defense to other countries, in the same way that you argued that individuals can hire private security.

The question then becomes whether they have any right, in the face of Hussein's prior aggression, to take any steps to ensure that it not happen again, or if all actions against him become forbidden the instant he withdraws. I think there's a big problem with the latter view, though.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-10-13 00:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 22:15, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Of course, if Hussein had followed the terms of the ceasefire and provided the access that the inspectors were supposed to have, then there would have been more evidence and less speculation.

It's sort of like if I get arrested and released on parole, and the terms of my parole agreement are that the police can search my house whenever they want. Then they come to search, and I tell them they can look in the kitchen, living room, and bedrooms, but not in the bathroom. Then they break down the door to the bathroom, and then I cry that they shouldn't have done that because they didn't have any proof that anything was there.


Now, I'm not defending Saddam, but what right did the usa have to tell him he couldn't build weapons in the first place?


That may depend on your view of preventative maintenance. My understanding is that you'd agree that Kuwait had the right to use force to repel the invasion from Iraq, and that, furthermore, they had the right to "assign" their right to self-defense to other countries, in the same way that you argued that individuals can hire private security.

The question then becomes whether they have any right, in the face of Hussein's prior aggression, to take any steps to ensure that it not happen again, or if all actions against him become forbidden the instant he withdraws. I think there's a big problem with the latter view, though.

Well, I agree with defense, peaceful prevention, and restitution. Not a fan of retaliation.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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[quote]On 2010-10-12 22:59, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 22:29, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 21:50, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 18:09, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-11 17:51, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
We need to stop spending too much, not raise taxes, and decrease government control over everything we do so the magic of freedom may be unleashed to create that rising tide that lifts all boats.

Carrie


Decrease government control over EVERYTHING we do? Including something as innocuous as who we marry?


Should we not have made Utah outlaw polygamy before they joined the Union? Marriage is hardly innocuous; it is the foundational institution of civilization. It means what it means, and changing what it means will do nothing but devalue and even destroy that institution.

Carrie


No, "we" should not have, and for the rest, care to back op the claim that it is a "foundational institution of civilization?" Also, care to explain how it would "devalue, and destroy" the "institution?"


That would take much more time than I have here, and the responses that are likely to be posted would probably torpedo the thread anyway.

Would you care to continue this discussion in private?

Carrie


If you wish, then I am more than fine with that.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
EsnRedshirt
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Surprisingly, I agree with Carrie in one respect. I was very hopeful for the Tea Party candidates to win all their primaries.

And now I hope their views are well known and publicized before the general election. Everyone should know exactly who they're voting for.
:)
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-10-13 08:03, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-13 00:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 22:15, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-12 19:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Of course, if Hussein had followed the terms of the ceasefire and provided the access that the inspectors were supposed to have, then there would have been more evidence and less speculation.

It's sort of like if I get arrested and released on parole, and the terms of my parole agreement are that the police can search my house whenever they want. Then they come to search, and I tell them they can look in the kitchen, living room, and bedrooms, but not in the bathroom. Then they break down the door to the bathroom, and then I cry that they shouldn't have done that because they didn't have any proof that anything was there.


Now, I'm not defending Saddam, but what right did the usa have to tell him he couldn't build weapons in the first place?


That may depend on your view of preventative maintenance. My understanding is that you'd agree that Kuwait had the right to use force to repel the invasion from Iraq, and that, furthermore, they had the right to "assign" their right to self-defense to other countries, in the same way that you argued that individuals can hire private security.

The question then becomes whether they have any right, in the face of Hussein's prior aggression, to take any steps to ensure that it not happen again, or if all actions against him become forbidden the instant he withdraws. I think there's a big problem with the latter view, though.

Well, I agree with defense, peaceful prevention, and restitution. Not a fan of retaliation.


So after the first retreat from Kuwait, what's the plan for "peaceful prevention" if inspections and/or telling him that he can't have certain weapons aren't on the table?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-10-13 11:17, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Everyone should know exactly who they're voting for.



Always a good idea. Unfortunately, it pretty much never happens whether you're talking about a Democrat, a Republican, or a third party member.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ClintonMagus
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Quote:
On 2010-10-13 15:06, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-13 11:17, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Everyone should know exactly who they're voting for.



Always a good idea. Unfortunately, it pretty much never happens whether you're talking about a Democrat, a Republican, or a third party member.


Or, they know who they're voting for, but then the "votee" gets to D.C. and things change...
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
MagicSanta
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Gee, thanks for mentioning the Tea Party. I don't know those guys but we got their candidate and she is out of her mind. Last week, due to the fact even her supporters were saying "dang....she is a bit much" she said, this is true, that she believes in what she said but if she is elected she promised not to do anything that she believes in.

On, the UN, I hate the UN. They caused the war in Iraq so Europe could have access to the oil.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-10-13 11:17, EsnRedshirt wrote:
And now I hope their views are well known and publicized before the general election. Everyone should know exactly who they're voting for.
:)


Interestingly enough isn't this what has happened to the libs now? Yea people know who they voted for and seem to have some buyers remorse going on. Not sure but November should tell.

Now do you mean their actual views, or those sorts of things you want to make up to make them look bad?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Dannydoyle, even you have to admit there are some really ridiculous Tea Party candidates. There's no need to make anything up to make them look bad.

Best to cut your losses on this one.
ClintonMagus
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Quote:
On 2010-10-14 06:42, landmark wrote:
Dannydoyle, even you have to admit there are some really ridiculous Tea Party candidates.


Landmark, even YOU have to admit that there are also a lot of "really ridiculous" Democrats and Republicans also, both incumbents and others.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Cyberqat
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I find it hard to take any political organization seriously whose early rallying cries were "Omaba isn't an American" and "Obama is a Nazi."

If you act foolishly, don't get mad when people think you are a fool.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-10-14 13:55, Cyberqat wrote:
I find it hard to take any political organization seriously whose early rallying cries were "Omaba isn't an American" and "Obama is a Nazi."

If you act foolishly, don't get mad when people think you are a fool.


Image

And people act as if Arizona is something new. Smile
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
critter
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Yesterday my school hosted an assembly by a fundie group that's been picketing at military funerals. They claim that the reason soldiers are dying in the middle east is to punish America for tolerating gays.
Twenty years ago that's what their ancestors said that AIDS was for.

They like it when they get kicked out because then they sue over their "free speech" or "free assembly" or what the frick ever.

They win, but I don't know why. I don't see it as a free speech issue. The cemetery is private property. If Fairmont Memorial Association doesn't want bigots disrupting solemn occasions on their own danged property then they have the right as the owners of that property to have said bigots removed.
Free speech mein Popo, that's a truspassin' issue.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
MagicSanta
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It is extremely rude to picket a funeral. I hope you pulled your assault rifle out of your guitar and took out a few of them.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-10-14 15:57, critter wrote:

Yesterday my school hosted an assembly by a fundie group that's been picketing at military funerals.

Your school hosted that group? Why? Was it controversial at all for your school to do so? Or does your school generally support that group's beliefs / actions?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
kcg5
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I'm not sure what fundie means, but are you talking about the westborough baptist church? Their website is "godhatesf$gs.com" (you can figure out what the $ stands for). They picket military funerals, and gay funerals. Many of the family are lawyers, and they sue everyone. The father, Fred, once sued sears for delivering a tv 6 days late-for 50 million dollars. Thankfully the "freedom riders" go to many of the funerals and stand in front of the WBC idiots, generally making things rough for them.


Why would a school have these people?
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
kcg5
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They also sport signs that say "thank god for 9/11", "thank god for aids", "thank god for ieds". They seem to have some stuff in common with that a$&hat Falwell, who is burning to a crisp. Odd what people will do, and say in the name of the lord.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
MagicSanta
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Fundimentalist. What is a gay funeral? You have a hole, an object that is longer than it is wide, you insert the object into the hole....funeral. That group should not be allowed near the funerals. I'll go protest their *** funerals if they don't stop it.
kcg5
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You know what I mean homes. Yes, I suspect that when they die, it will be a big turn out. Check YouTube for them. Even if you don't like Mike Moore, what he did with Fred was very good.

Critter, do you mean the school where you work, or attend? I still can't get over the fact they (if it was the WBC ) were allowed to speak.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
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