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quicknotist
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For goodness' sake, if you are going to play around with techniques and mimic an induction for the purpose of a trick, just be aware that some people might go under without you intending it to happen.
PLEASE Make sure you know how to manage it once it happens.
I wonder how many times he'd done this before meeting a somnambulist on live TV?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFDU6EcGsgY#t=2m10s
kissdadookie
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I thought he did that ethically. He did a proper undoing of the suggestion even though I personally feel that if you were to tell somebody "If I don't undo this, it may get a bit weird in the future" (or something along those lines, I'm just paraphrasing) could potentially freak a person out regardless of if you had them under or not.
quicknotist
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But you do know the suggestion/hypnosis was unnecessary for this effect?
In my eyes, it was an accident and one which exposed the mentalist's inexperience with hypnosis when faced with a "good subject."
Note, the presenter didn't nod the first time. A sign that the mentalist wasn't in control of the situation, probably due to the fact no parameters had been set up beforehand and again indicating an accidental induction.
kissdadookie
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Yup, I do understand that the effect had a sure fire method. I do tend to mix techniques from hypnosis in with actual no fail effects though. This is in order to give the effect some dramatic flair and more often then not, it's so that I can more easily get a person under more easily without having to go through suggestability tests and what not to judge my specs.

I would definitely agree with you that the performer in the video was hesitant and definitely NOT in control of the situation.
mindpunisher
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How can you say he was ethical? From that clip you can't tell anything about his level of skill or knowledge. Other than he wasn't a good hypnotist for sure. It was quite a clumsy "induction". It was obvious it was just mentalism patter. And not that great either.

The thing is many kids buying crap hypnosis products will go out for the first time and try this in school. And its so easy for someone to just tumble and crack their heads. Same with those going out and tying this in a bar after watching a DVD. Or even being on a training.

If you think that was "ethical" from what you saw then its people like you buying this crap that worries me.

Magicians should stick to magic. Hypnosis is NOT a trick. And should never be treated as such.
kissdadookie
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MP, stop spamming every single thread on this board. I'm shocked that you haven't been banned yet.
mindpunisher
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First of all you don't really understand the concept of ethical. And now you show your ignorance with the term spamming.

Perhaps you should look it up.
kissdadookie
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No point arguing with a spambot (aka MP).
quicknotist
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I feel you're missing the point kissdadookie and I think mindpunisher is actually spot on in this case. I thought he might "get it" even if nobody else did.

The point here is that (I might be wrong but) I don't think the mentalist ever truly intended to hypnotise the presenter, be it to enhance the effect or for whatever reason.

It looks to me like he performed a "fake" induction with absolutely no expectation that it was going to work, BUT he stumbled upon a somnambulist (who might have even been hypnotized in the recent past.)

This took him to a place where he was clearly out of his depth and, not being in control of the situation, it is THAT which can't be described in any way as ethical.
I think he had a lucky escape. Which is why I wondered how many times he had done it before striking this type of situation.

As for "undoing the suggestion?" Once again, It looked to me like he was just "doing" the rest of his patter, still uncertain about what had just happened.

The message I wanted to convey is that there are some people out there who the inexperienced hypnotist simply shouldn't be playing around with in this manner, for fear of putting themselves in a vulnerable and dangerous position which has the potential to affect those who do know what they are doing.
Because they aren't always that easy to spot (unless again, you know what you're doing) then it's safer to steer clear of using techniques, even lightheartedly and amateurishly, of which you have no deeper understanding.

It reminded me of a time a couple of years ago when I caught my daughter (6 at the time) mimicking an induction of mine on one of her school friends. I had to explain firmly to her why that was unwise and even she understands that now. I was angry at myself for not predicting that might happen.

On the other hand, we can't stop people seeing a stage show or a video and copying what they see, but we do have a responsibility as performers to balance that by reminding people of the dangers from time to time.
The problem is, there are too many non-performers and non-practitioners out there, all too willing to share words of "advice" with the uninitiated.

The blind leading the partially sighted.
Nongard1
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I don't get the issue? So they guy went into trance quickly and deeply. So what? It enhanced the performance and he handled it well. There is not way to know if he does or does not know anything about hypnosis from this clip. He got the desired effect, promoted his act on TV, nobody waas harmed, nothing strange happened, he removed his silly suggestion and on with the show.
In fact he probly did a lot of good for hypnosis demonstrating it works, is effective and FUN!
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Phoenix Montgomery
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Ok, so here's the scoop. I learnt the Zap method from Hon Wong in person, a few years back in Vegas, & around that time I had also been studying most of Richards materials, as well as Anthony Jacquins. I'm meeting with Anthony next year to do some further training as well after studying his books & materials.
Michael Johns knows some of my work too & aside from this I have base level NLP & hypno quals. Not really certain as to why I must offer you my training to justify a clip, but if it satisfies your curiosity, there you go.

What I did on the morning show was difficult because they were, well.. a little hard to control for any routine, so, as in insurance I used that little stunt - Imagine the subject not being as susceptible, & with such a short space allowed I couldn't try anything longer either. Also include in that sequence of your imagination the fact that obtaining the host for a few minutes to run a pre-show induction was out of the question because they have so much to do before a show.

The show's ratings that morning went up, & viewers comments online said "There was a psychic guy doing hypnosis & psychic stuff who says there is not one psychic power being used that leaves the channel 4 search for a psychic contestants for dead.." & I have been invited back again.

In the end, the only people with an issue are the ones that will always have an issue with anything. Those people should go on & do a great job & promote the art further.

All the best to you all & if it upsets you then apologies, if it makes you want to get out there & demonstrate your talents, then awesome.
Nongard1
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Gloves are off! (My money is on Pheonix)
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Anansi
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I liked it.
I know it wasn't the ethical stuff some folk here do like getting blokes scrubbing each other in a bath tub or shagging an inflatable sheep Smile , but Phoenix kept his composure and the spec's were really into it. I think right then, If he'd told them that he'd been gifted his powers after being bitten by a Chupacabra whilst holidaying in South America, they would have gone for it!

Now you know you have a somnambulist and have been invited back, what an opportunity to have them experience some more varied and interesting phenomena.
ars est celare artem
quicknotist
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As a hypnotist who also mixes mentalism and hypnosis in live performances, I didn't like it.

So shoot me. For what? Speaking my mind.

I stand by my original comments. He LOOKED like it was unexpected and (in my opinion) could have managed the hypnosis better, to say the least.

Welcome Phoenix.
I prefer to judge by the results of training rather than hearing about the training or trainers, but thanks for chipping in.

I have no idea what the Channel 4 Search for a Psychic comment was all about, I am resident in New Zealand, saw your appearance live and know of no such show here. Maybe they were going on about a show in another country.
The ratings went up? Maybe the All Blacks were on that morning... Smile

Anyway, let's catch up next time you're over here. I have lots more stories about the NZ media which you're bound to enjoy.

Richard, when you go around baiting people with "gloves off" comments like that, it's no wonder so many discussions descend into slanging matches.
I have no intention of fighting with anyone.
Phoenix Montgomery
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Quicknotist:

Sounds good, where are you based? I am over there quite often. It would be good to have you at a show so I may obtain some further info on what you don't like. As nice as compliments are, I don't learn as much as I would when I hear what people don't like.

I only posted that part about my training as it appeared as though there was doubt that I had done any hypnosis at all in earlier comments.

Send me a PM with your email (this goes for anyone else too) & I will be in touch. Love to stay & chat semantics, but I have to pack as I have 7 nights of shows, & several flights in between each to get there Smile

All the best!
Phoenix Montgomery
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Anansi:

Thank you! Smile

All of you: Love your comments on the "Do hypnotists get hotter girlfriends than magicians". Cracked me up.
Phoenix Montgomery
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http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-93146-p-7.html
Look for date, 15th April, 2010, this is the thread I mentioned. I misquoted, but you get the idea. Smile No all blacks mentioned Smile
quicknotist
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Oh. They're comparing you (favourably) to Sensing Murder, a Psychic Investigator show.
I'm in Christchurch on the South Island. Earthquake zone. Just had a magnitude 5.0 aftershock in the last 35 minutes.
Good luck with your shows.
Cheers,
I'll DM you contact details.
Reg


Quote:
On 2010-10-12 23:49, PhoenixMagic wrote:
http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-93146-p-7.html
Look for date, 15th April, 2010, this is the thread I mentioned. I misquoted, but you get the idea. Smile No all blacks mentioned Smile
Nongard1
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Reg,

The gloves off comment, since MP had already posted here was a callback to the now closed 9 page thread on safety, that decended into Goodwins Law. Much like the inflatable sheep and bathtub line of anansi.... sorry for my ambiguity. It comes second nature. Smile

And hope you are recovering form those quakes! Were able to salvage much from your house?
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
quicknotist
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It looks like Phoenix and I will be friends. He's a real pro for taking my criticism on the chin.

Thanks for your concerns about the Earthquake Richard.
We are fine. Our house has many cracks and gaps and we had a few belongings damaged, but as it's still habitable, it's fairly low down on the Earthquake Commission inspect/repair list.
The surprising thing is all the aftershocks we're still getting 5 weeks on.
Over 1700 and counting!
(And only two local shows cancelled in all that time!)

I live near the second "c" in Christchurch on this map: http://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/

Play it fast for a cool visualization!

Reg
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