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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » CGI question for you knowledgable types (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

MagicSanta
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I had heard that the old style of make up, you know like in monster movies, is a dying art. They said it was because it is easier to do make up with CGI or computers, not sure of the term, than to do make up. Is it really that easy to do with a computer for those companies than the make up? If so that would be amazing.
gdw
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It is sadly a bit of a dying art. The thing is with cgi you are not really limited. You want to put a hole through a guys head and have him walking around, you can do that. A bit harder with just make-up.

Personally, I think there are still many things that just look better with practical effects.

That being said, used sparingly, cgi is great. It's just like magic. If everything you do is a trick deck, your show will suffer, but throw in a gaff or two at just the right moments, in an otherwise all straight slight of hand set, and you might have a thing of beauty


Look at the use of cgi in The Dark Knight. Very sparingly, and you barely notice. Used best and you don't notice at all .
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mvmagic
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Computer certainly allows stuff that just could not be done for real. Hole in the head is one thing of course, but if you have watched X-Men 3, there is a scene where Sir Ian McKellen and Patrick stewart were made 20 years younger. Benjamin Button was not the first to do it, many stars are secretly made younger onscreen.

But is it is not very easy nor cheap, doing CGI. There is great tools for it, but generally it is still very expensive. Dealing with make-up, which has to hold up in close-ups, makes stakes VERY much higher. For straightforward make-up (with no holes in the head) I don't think CG will replace make-up for quite some time.
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Olympic Adam
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I live by a rule in musical terms when creating modern works, if you can hear reverb, it's too much

same goes for this imo, if you notice it it's too much

like tomato ketchup
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motown
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I think it depends on the film and what needs to be acheived. Believe me there are still actors and actresses sitting in chairs for countless hours having make-up applied. It really depends on the character and budget.

Take a Wolfman character. In some instances CGI may be used to create a better looking transformation to the actor made up as the wolfman. In another instance it my be all CGI.

There's a lot of Movies that have benefited from this technology.

Sometimes it's used well, sometimes it not.
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Micheal Leath
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Having worked on and knowing some others who have worked on some horror movies, I don't think the "old style" makeup is going away anytime soon.
gdw
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Like with magic, it is like any technique. It must be used selectivly. As mentioned above, if you notice it, it's not working.

Anything that takes you out of the moment is bad, generally. There are ways to break the rules, but usually only done well by the best of them.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
MagicSanta
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So you want to make a guy look like he has a hole in his head you can see through. Will the computer automatically process the image so it follows the character or is it like animation that you have to have the hole changed frame for frame?
gdw
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Depends on how you do it. There would be several ways, but probably best to use tracking so you would not have to manually do frame by frame work.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
motown
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MagicSanta,

Have you seen lord of the rings?
The character Gallum was done CGI, but based on a human actor (Andy Serkis) who was shot on green screen to bring the CGI character to life.
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Carrie Sue
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Actually, Andy Serkis actually performed Gollum in many scenes of Lord of the Rings (Films 2 and 3). Digital effects artists painstakingly erased him from the shot and inserted the CGI character in his place, repainting individual frames where their obvious body differences left pixel mismatches.

The reason Peter Jackson went to this extreme was that Andy's performance was so dynamic that so-called Invisible Man shots were never as good as when he was actually in the scene with the other actors.

Gollum was a landmark achievement in synthetic movie characters.

Carrie
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motown
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Carrie,

Yes, that was my point about Andy being shot on green screen.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
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gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-10-25 14:03, Carrie Sue wrote:
Actually, Andy Serkis actually performed Gollum in many scenes of Lord of the Rings (Films 2 and 3). Digital effects artists painstakingly erased him from the shot and inserted the CGI character in his place, repainting individual frames where their obvious body differences left pixel mismatches.

The reason Peter Jackson went to this extreme was that Andy's performance was so dynamic that so-called Invisible Man shots were never as good as when he was actually in the scene with the other actors.

Gollum was a landmark achievement in synthetic movie characters.

Carrie


Correct, though not always needing to rely on the frame by frame replacement. Though this was required for certain shots, particularly the ones with direct interaction with "real" actors, like the little rumble with Sam and Frodo, a good majority utilized motion capture, and much easier (relative to the painstaking frame by frame painting) replacement techniques.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
MagicSanta
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I've not seen Lord of the Rings...read the book!
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