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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Hello all,
I don't think there is an actual answer to my question, but I would appreciate any thoughts anyone has on the matter. How do you decide how "dramatic" (by which I mean clearly dramatic) to make your presentations in bizarre magick? In "regular" magic you can be very very dramatic if you want to be and still be very effective, everyone knows it's a trick anyways. In mentalism (the style I do at least) you certainly want to present well and build dramatic tension, but being obviously dramatic is a no no. What about bizarre? Of course there is no ultimate answer, but for you how do you decide? In some of Docc Hilford's presentations he'll be doing a fairly serious routine but put on a very dramatic voice; a very good dramatic voice, but it is clearly dramatic. Do you feel that doing to much of this will take away from a presentation or, like a stage play, the audience will tend to accept it and be drawn in (assuming it is done well)? I ask because on some occasions (the night before last being one of them) I have tried to really play down anything to dramatic to try to make it more real and ended up having people listen to my story or presentation and not really notice the magical effect, or just not really care about the effect because they weren't in the right space to appreciate it. Similarly I did a successful seance a few weeks ago; it was successful because I just did a real seance and played it real, which is the type of thing I do anyways. However last year I attempted a short seance in a show; I tried to make the effects subtle for believability, but they ended up being to subtle to have the impact I had hoped for. ...Luckily the books flew off the shelf, scared everyone and everyone has fond memories of that routine, but it should have been much better. Once again, I know this an unanswerable question ultimately, but if anyone would care to share their thoughts on what level a dramatization they use in their shows I would be very grateful and hopefully it will help me organize my own thoughts.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
I don't feel your use of the word dramatic is appropriate. I think what you mean is "theatrical". A seance can be presented very earnestly and with great sincerity and still be dramactic.
What dictates theatrics is the size of the venue and context of the performance. Someone like the late Richiardi would be out of place doing his very theatrical style in too intimate of a venue. There was a size to his work that called for a real stage. On the other hand, there have been some very bizarre "street magic" type magicians that are extremely effective one on one, but are complete lost when put on a stage. The other factor to consider is understanding what fits well with your natural personality. So much of magic is dependant on a high level of personal believability. It is much easier to adapt the material to who you are than try to be something you are not. I have seen a number of bizarre performers that are less than effective because of this. |
Bill Fienning Special user 635 Posts |
All of my bizarre routines are presented "in character," that is, dramatically. My costume and manner of presentation are intended to produce the maximum effect on the audience. I warm up by relaxing my voice to ensure it is at the bottom of the basso profundo register, to sound as creepy as possible.
However, the performer must be careful not to seem corny or fake; if you are going to be a real character, it must be acted as such. Otherwise, the entire theatrical effect is ruined or lost on the audience.
Bill Fienning
"It's More than Tricks" |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Your absolutely right of course. I knew dramatics didn't seem right, but I couldn't think of how else to put it.
"Theatrics," that's exactly right. and thank you for your post, I appreciate it. You've given me a lot to think about. Posted: Nov 2, 2010 12:14am Bill, Thank you. I think that often, for shorter "sets" I don't really develop a character and that may be a mistake. I was thinking about that; in my upcoming (fairly distant future) one man play I am completely in character and I have no questions about how theatrical to make it. Very good point thank you.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
What's the story you want to tell? What do you have to do, to tell it that way?
Dramatic elements are character, plot, dramatic conflict and resolution, costume and set. How do you write your script, so that each of these elements forwards the story? You just had an experience with, for you, an alternate presentation. Since it had such an effect on the desired results, what can you learn from it? A lot of performers lose sight of reality, because they get stuck in an idea of what they have to look like, how they have to sound. They get hung up on the theatricality (great distinction, Todd!), and it gets in their way. I never saw or met Andruzzi, but I can make an educated guess about his style, because so many next-generation bizarrists emulate his voice and timing. Andruzzi had an effect on them, but they miss the point of the performance. They try to have an Andruzzi effect on the audience, rather than using the simple truth of themselves. They come across as phony. Audiences are not stupid. They know when something's theatrical, and they know when something is real. There's a time and place for each. So again, the question is what kind of effect YOU want to have...
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Old stuff, but some of the best advice I’ve heard and tried to follow….
was he speaking at a magic club meeting to you suppose??? “Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you, trippingly on the tongue. But if you mouth it, as many of our players do, I had as lief the town crier spoke my lines. Nor do not saw the air too much with your hand, thus, by use all gently, for in the very torrent, tempest, and (as I may say) whirlwind of your passion, you must acquire and beget a temperance that may give it smoothness. O, it offends me to the soul to hear a robustious periwig-pated fellow tear a passion to tatters, to very rags, to split the ears of the groundlings, who for the most part are capable of nothing but inexplicable dumb shows and noise. I would have such a fellow whipped for o'erdoing Termagant. It out-herods Herod. Pray you avoid it. Be not too tame neither, but let your own discretion be your tutor. Suit the action to the word, the word to the action, with this special observance, that you o'erstep not the modesty of nature. For anything so overdone is from the purpose of playing, whose end, both at the first and now, was and is, to hold, as 'twere, the mirror up to nature, to show virtue her own feature, scorn her own image, and the very age and body of the time his form and pressure. Now this overdone, or come tardy off, though it make the unskillful laugh, cannot but make the judicious grieve, the censure of the which one must in your allowance o'erweigh a whole theatre of others. O, there be players that I have seen play, and heard others praise, and that highly (not to speak profanely), that neither having th' accent of Christians, nor the gait of Christian, pagan, nor man, have so strutted and bellowed that I have thought some of Nature's journeymen had made men, and not made them well, they imitated humanity so abominably. Reform it altogether! And let those that play your clowns speak no more than is set down for them, for there be of them that will themselves laugh, to set on some quantity of barren spectators to laugh too, though in the mean time some necessary question of the play be then to be considered. That's villainous and shows a most pitiful ambition in the fool that uses it. Go make you ready.” HAMLET, PRINCE OF DENMARK Scene 2, Act 3 William Shakespeare |
Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Excellent points all around, Todd, Harley, Bill and Walt (and William)!
The only thing I might add: Like it or not, we work in a theatrical field. Mystery performance is interactive theatre, and it uses the same tools as most other theatrical performances: voice, physicality, costume, light, sound, setting, props, and audience proximity. You seem to be asking us how a particular piece in your repertoire should play: heavily or lightly? Intimately or grandly? These are artistic choices based on your story, your character, and the experience you have decided to give your audience. Whatever you choose, you must think about every one of your tools and how you will use each to accomplish your goal. I read something by John Carney a year or two ago that I thought was absolutely brilliant (and I'll paraphrase): The difference between an artist and a hack is in the number of conscious decisions you make. With every decision, you influence the audience experience. Your artistic vision for a specific piece in a walkaround situation may not be the same as when you're doing the same piece in a parlor show. But in each context, you have decisions to make and tools to help you accomplish your goal. Own them. Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
In some cases the back rows need to be taken in consideration. But my best advise is to remember (which sounds specific but can be extrapolated to many catagories):
To best act Drunk, TRY to act Sober.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
I was quite serious about posting Hamlet’s Advice to the Players,
some things have not changed since Shakespeare’s day, that said, other things have. There is generally a course in a college drama program called “Periods and Styles of Acting” while a valuable study, unfortunately it often has the disastrous result of the students mimicking what they mistakenly surmise must have been the acting style in the times of Shakespeare, Moliere, and Wilde. Acting should be done in homage to the context and time, but in the accepted mode of the day. If you rent DVD’s of the most popular films of the 1930’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s 80’s, 90’s, and our decade you’ll see huge variations and developments in style. We no longer believe the mumbling casual style of Brando is valid today, nor the over-the-top histrionics of the Barrymore’s, they were great in their context. Today, the style developing is of the ‘natural” school, but beginning to have an edge of slightly “heighted reality,” to keep pace with the impact of CGI and blockbuster popularity. You’ll find this slight magnification within a “real” context from Johnny Depp,, or Anne Hathaway, or Jake Gyllenhaal. . I don’t thing Bizarre Magic(k) should be much different, the performance needs to be in line with your target audience, the material, the context of the material, and of course your ability. There are very few magicians who can carry of an accent, or a style from another period in history. Tony Andruzzi was mainly a naturalistic performer, but also quite dramatic, intense-- and when playing for other magicians (which he mostly did) somewhat over the top. Today with the exception of Eugene Burger few can succeed playing at that level. My personal belief is that a coach or director is a necessity, not a luxury, to orchestrate a performance, as no one can accurately see themselves and gauge their level of play. What might seem correct in you rind might be way off in reality. With my experiences in theatre as well as magic, those are my thoughts on the topic anyway. Magically, Walt |
Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Mimicking, yes. So many do.
The current idea of pronunciation for Shakespearean English is a good example. We all know what it SHOULD sound like. The reality, is that their accents then, were somewhere in between what we think of as Cockney, and southern Appalachian dialect. ...and associated performance conventions...Currently, we as audience experience Shakespeare productions in relative silence, appreciating the art of it. This never happened in Shakespeare's time. It was rowdy, interactive, heckling, with demands for re-tellings of favored speeches. This was true until the mid-1800s in the US, when silence became la mode. The change was an issue of social class, and about sources of arts funding. Another additional note... most Americans in the mid-1800s, had a working knowledge of Shakespeare, though his work had become relatively unknown in England. So, conventions apply to audiences as well, and times and places.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
Eddie Garland Inner circle Hells Kitchen, New York City 4207 Posts |
BOTTOM
Let me play the lion too: I will roar, that I will do any man's heart good to hear me; I will roar, that I will make the duke say 'Let him roar again, let him roar again.' QUINCE An you should do it too terribly, you would fright the duchess and the ladies, that they would shriek; and that were enough to hang us all. |
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Thank you guys so much, I really appreciate it. Ultimately I know it's an artistic decision and depends on me and my character as well as the show and the audience, but I really can't tell you all how helpful your thoughts have been; and I'll be reading and re-reading the Hamlet quote several times.
Eddie: I remember that one, I played the wall once.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
Bill Fienning Special user 635 Posts |
Tony Andruzzi was somewhat unique in that he played the part of Tony Andruzzi, 24/7. He was always "ON." Because of the character he was, he could pull off things that most performers could not do successfully. There are few videos of his performances, but Flora and Co. made one here in Albuquerque which may now be available on DVD.
http://www.floraco.com/ment.htm
Bill Fienning
"It's More than Tricks" |
weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
I play the part of an undertaker when I do magic and like to be so dramatic the spectator shies away, hides behind someone, or runs off screaming. Sometimes all it takes is a cold, silent stare. However, I perform in a venue that people come to to be frightened so I'd say the level of dramatics depends upon what you expect to achieve and where you perform.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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