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PaulGreen Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Is this glass or plastic?
Enjoy the search! Paul Green |
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Randwill Inner circle 1914 Posts |
I believe it is plastic. But the real question is, does the bulb look like glass or plastic? If it looks like plastic, it will be obvious to the audience that it's not a real light bulb. To me, the fact that it lights up screams gimmicked bulb. So the only way to go is like Scotty York did and hand out the (a) bulb at the end, dispelling the gimmicked notion in their minds. So if the Tenyo prop matches a real bulb in appearance that would be great. It would, in fact, be even better than using the Scotty York bulb because it would be, presumably, much less fragile.
A difference between the two is that the Tenyo model stays lit like the Fred Kapps bulb and requires that you carry a pair of scissors. Scotty's goes out when moved away from the cards. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
We already have a thread here which I and a few others have commented on the properties of the Ghost Lamp Bulb:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......tart=120 The bulb is a frosted plastic, and I place it in a small appliance bulb box and it looks great. Anyone handling it would see the smallest "seam" at the top of the plastic, but overall the base and bulb are a 9 out of 10. I would not want a glass bulb anyway - way too fragile. Look, any bulb that lights on it's own with no source of power may "scream" (or squeek) "gimmicked bulb" no matter what, right? Look, even the venerable Scotty York version would have that issue, but so far I don't see that as a problem except perhaps for magicians. So to me the Tenyo GL certainly keeps pace with the original, and also include the gimmick to shut the light off with the scissors too which is a nice touch. Any spec playing or viewing the bulb will not likely find any secrets. The metal base does unscrew from the bottom - so they will see where a battery goes in - big deal. Everyone I have shown GL to so far has found it to be delightful - not a killer effect by any stretch, but a fun and enchanting trick that continues in the tradition of Scotty York and does it justice IMO. Posted: Nov 6, 2010 6:23pm [quote]A difference between the two is that the Tenyo model stays lit like the Fred Kapps bulb and requires that you carry a pair of scissors. Scotty's goes out when moved away from the cards. You don't need a scissors to shut off the bulb - there are multiple easy and obvious ways to shut it off...including pressing the bulb again near the stack of the chosen card. With that in mind a creative magician could even make shutting the bulb off again part of their whole routine.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Randwill Inner circle 1914 Posts |
Thanks for the additional info saysold. I should also have made it clear that with Scotty's routine the gimmicked bulb isn't offered for examination until the end. It is introduced and immediately placed into the handkerchief. Doing it this way, the imperfections of the Tenyo bulb would probably fly by.
I still say that in a professional performance setting, that the only way to do it is to give them the bulb to take home at the end of the routine. To me this makes it a killer effect. If you're just showing off a new toy to friends, that's probably not necessary. |
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Jean-Luc.R. Inner circle QUEBEC - CANADA 1488 Posts |
I have seen ghost lamp sod for $52 us at Seo Magic website
And for $92 us elsewhere like Hank Lee's!!! Is this the same lamp or same product??? |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
Jean-Luc:
Cest Vrai - many discussed these crazy prices in the Tenyo 2011 thread here a few weeks back. The conclusion thus far is that the extremely weak dollar makes the price very high in the United States (and in Europe as well with the Euro). Prices direct from Japan are even lower than Canada. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=90 I can't remember there being such a huge discrepancy in prices from country to country, but I think it reflects the very poor shape of the United States economy. Who would have thought we could use Tenyo as a barometer of the health of various countries? Seriously! Buy direct from Hitomi at Magico in Japan and you will save quite a bundle.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Jean-Luc.R. Inner circle QUEBEC - CANADA 1488 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-09 09:50, saysold1 wrote: Thanks for for your words in French! And thanks for your great insights |
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guerrestellari New user 96 Posts |
Hi saysold1,
There is a fixed SRP (suggested retail price) for Tenyo in Japan domestic market, and when products are exported to other markets, Tenyo does not insist that the SRP be followed, and it is up to the retailers to set their retail prices according to their respective markets. In fact, the discount structure for Tenyo for domestic retailers and overseas retailers are somewhat different. |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
I think I'm right in saying that Paul Stone owns the rights to this trick as he would have purchased them from Ken Brooke in 1982? Is there any mention by Tenyo regarding it's ancestry?
I've still got the glass version that works like a dream - and NO - you don't have to use scissors - although there is a gag line for when you do.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
The directions and package say "Tenyo World Greatest Magic: Scotty York"
Scotty York's masterpiece magic. The scissors is not necessary at all here either with GL, it is only included as an extra kicker at the end if desired.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Cheers saysold1 for the clarification.
Whilst it is Scotty York's trick, the copyright was owned by Ken Brooke (and now Paul Stone). So what can we assume? Yet another rip off from the Tenyo Japanese plastic toy company? Brookie will be spinning in his grave.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
Others here would have a much better handle on the history and credits due for this so I bow at at this point.
I may be wrong but I don't believe Tenyo has the reputation of ripping off others effects, quite the opposite. Tenyo is known s one of the innovators in their field and have been for many years. I have no idea if they are paying licensing to Scotty York or others but best not to throw any stones until we have more data.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3055 Posts |
I would agree saysold1, Tenyo has been one of the few company's to place a priority on acknowledging creator's on marketing materials, packaging and instructions. Scotty York is prominately featured on the packaging and I assume this was done with his cooperation ( and hopefully renumeration). Not sure of the deal between Ken Brooke and Scotty but Scotty York sold the bulb off on on himself over the years, The bulb sold by Ken Brooke was a different style (differnces in bulbs in England) than the one Scotty used. I am sure Angelo can speak to how Tenyo treats inventors.
Cheers, John PS Just back from the ill fated Magic Cruise last week. We were on the ship that caught fire and had to be towed into port. It was an adventure... was wishing I had my Ghost Lamp to help illuminate my room! |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Let me pitch this better.
Firstly, I openly acknowledge that Tenyo have created some masterpieces of innovative magic - and I cut my magic teeth on many of these products as a young lad in the early 1970's. However, and to the best of my knowledge, both the Koornwinder Car & The Scotty York Lamp Trick were tricks that Ken Brooke owned the SOLE marketing rights on. When Paul Stone bought Ken's business in 1981, I assume those rights became Paul's. If he has subsequently sold the marketing rights to Tenyo then fair enough - although I would imagine that Paul Stone would be mentioned somewhere in dispatches? I note that (on their website) Tenyo state Dick Koornwinder gave them the rights to market his car. Sorry but given the aforementioned point, surely it WASN'T Dick's any longer to sell? I'm sure we'd all like to get paid twice for the same job! Why am I even bothered? Well as a very young man I learnt not only magic from Ken Brooke but more importantly, values in life. One of those values was not to take from others what is rightfully theirs. For those who can remember back that far, Ken had a number of battles with other dealers (primariliy Tannens in the USA) who copied and marketed inferior copies of Ken's effects - the Fred Kaps floating cork comes to mind. The lone battles that he subsequently had protecting what was rightfully his, contributed to his ill health - and the lack of support (particularly from 'magical societies') was nothing other than disgraceful. Ken Brooke was a gentleman and, even by today's standards, paid small fortunes to magicians on the proviso that he could have exclusive rights to market their effects - (ask Gaeton Bloom). To this end, many of us that learnt from Ken, and witnessed his passion to fight piracy, have a desire to see Ken's wishes carried out long after this great man's passing. To avoid any confusion, apart from Paul Stone, the only outlet granted permission to market Ken Brooke's effects is Stevens Magic in the USA - a deal struck between Ken, Paul and Joe in (I believe) 1982. Ken wrote very kind words about Joe Stevens and it's nice to see his company legitimately selling Ken's wares to this day. It would be great for someone from Tenyo to respond to these points - I will gladly eat humble pie and tender my sincere apologies if I'm wrong about any of this. Posted: Nov 18, 2010 7:01am Just to add - does anyone have a contact at Tenyo that I can write to?
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
Ask Angelo Carbone if he is comfortable with inquiring.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3055 Posts |
Hi Barry:
I am a huge fan of Ken Brooke. Although never had the opportunity to meet him I have collected all printed material written about him or by him over the years. It would be interesting to hear from Scotty York on the background of the Tenyo deal. John |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-18 06:52, Merc Man wrote: Your description of the (perhaps) unwritten history of Ken Brooke and and the behind the scenes negotiations is totally fascinating, and much appreciated I'm sure by all here at the MC. Thanks for taking the time to recall this history - I'm sure your post will spur others to chime in.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3055 Posts |
I re-read the hitory on the Scotty York bulb as detailed in his book "For Your Eyes Only". It is a great story on how he showed and fooled Ken and others with the bulb during a visit to London in 1967. Ken offered 500 pounds for the rights to the trick. Scotty said he could have the rights with no payment providing "he did not allow any other dealer to ever handle it". Ken agreed to this. He does say that Ken was very generous in not ever charging him for any props over the years. The book details the construction of the bulb but does say that "manufacturing rights for the production and sale of the bulb are reserved by FYEO" (Scotty's magic company). From this it would appear that the rights to the trick reverted back to Scotty when Ken passed away as Ken agreed that no other dealer would ever handle it.
By the way I highly recommend Scotty's book if you can find a copy. John |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
John,
Thanks for the additional information relating to the background of this trick. Even after Ken's passing surely, if he sold on the copyright to his effects to Paul Stone, then Paul must still own these? As we go get older, we learn to uphold the integrity of the values that we have learnt during our life time. Clearly Scotty demonstrated this many years ago by granting Ken Brooke exclusivity for this effect. It would now APPEAR that he has simply 'sold out' - to a company that provides mass circulation plastic effects aimed at joe public. Sorry, but in my view, that's a complete and utter travesty.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3055 Posts |
Merc Man, I appreciate your loylaty to Ken and Paul. I am jut stating what was written in 1993 as the history and rights to the trick as written by the inventor Scotty York. Scotty clearly states that he granted exclusivity to Ken and Ken alone and that the rights would not pass onto another dealer. He granted those rights to Ken with no charge. If that is the case than upon the passing of Ken, I do not think it is unreasonable the rights would revert back to the originator, particularly given the deal above. Given that this was written in 1993 (17 years ago), I would assume that if Paul or anyone else had an issue with this it would have been addressed long before now. I think it is a little unfair given the written record to suggest that Scotty has done something underhanded without further evidence to support that.
I appreciate that a number of items handled by Ken were ripped off by other dealers and I think that is very unfair. In this case I think there is enough recorded history to give Scotty the benefit of the doubt. Has Paul Stone raised any issue with this? Also I take issue with the concept of selling out to Tenyo. Tenyo to many is a respected company that for the most part promotes innovation and has a great history of highlighting inventors for their efforts. I don't think Dan Harlan, Mike Powers, Angelo Carbone, Lubor Fielder, Steve Duscheck, and others "sold out". Instead I think they are getting broader recognition for their creative efforts. My two cents.... John |
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