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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts |
I'm just wondering here, do children actually know what playing cards are these days?
As a child of the 50s / 60s I was brought up on playing cards. But come to think of it my kids who were brought up in the late 80s / 90s / early 00s really never knew much about playing cards. There are quite often days when we face an audience of children who have never seen Children's Magic Tricks before, and we have to guide them slowly through even the most visual routines to 'tune them in' to what is going on. I'd not relish the idea of explaining what playing cards were to these youngsters. I've seen and respected the skills of some card manipulators - Tony James will remember Frankie Woods. He excelled at this. But even Frankie would only use highly visual props with small children. He'd have never thrust a deck of playing cards at them in his shows despite his ability. . . . and yes, one printed card / cut-out / pack flat prop. is enough in any show I believe. We love the old "Funny Fotos" / "Comedy Capers" sets whereby children hold funny pictures in front of themselves with a face cut-out - and you magically take a picture of one of them. Tony |
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
I wasn't being personal Mary. Honest!
Jumbo picture cards are usually different as they are simply a substrate for a visual. The effect has little to do with normal card work, apart sometimes from a double lift. But the variations of 'take a card' and manipulative work no matter how skilled are poor fare in an hour long children's show and even poorer when the show is 45 or 30 minutes. I could think of a lot better things to do!
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I do two tricks that use cards, but I do no card tricks.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
I use them as a vehicle.
Sometimes they are part of a strait jacket routine. I always add lots of other props, musical instruments and audience participation. The effect whether with cards or other prop, should be chosen with the venue, age of the "kids" and time of year. Example: "Hey I got my Christmas Cards out early....while bringing out playing cards with the Christmas motif. Another example is blend the cards to the theme of the birthday party. Harris card challenged and this week working on the K/M move. For those into cards, I would appreciate a PM for tips.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-09 06:24, Tony James wrote: This is a very interesting thing to consider. And you might be right if you're starting from scratch. My stand-up act has a lot of basic tricks in it. But I've done them thousands of times. There are honestly better things I could do in place of each trick that I DO. But should I? Should I replace my egg bag routine with "The Lemon Game" because "it's better"? Should I buy Bill Abbott's "5 Card Opener" because it's theoretically "better" than my opener that I created myself? Should I replace my card trick just because I get talked into doing a kids show? I may switch my closer one day when I've got something wonderfully strong that develops. I may switch my opener if it no longer suits me. With very few exceptions, and unless I have a specific reason to do so, I don't change anything.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-09 03:53, Tony James wrote: Wow with all that imagination you obviously have you can't think of any other plot with a deck of cards? With all that imagination you can't think of a way to make a card trick interesting for kids? With all your imagination and insight you can't imagine that the 'best' card workers probably don't do card tricks the same way a kids magician would? OK
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
I think I know what Tony is saying. And remember, he's talking about the "one plot": choose a card/find it. A simple fact: many adults detest card magic. At least, they think they do. Anyone who wants to try to persuade these kind of folks to watch - and try to enjoy - a card trick, already has a tough time. These folks see you found their card and think "so what?" Of course, there are cool and amazing things that can be done to win them over, but largely, forget it.
Kids don't yet KNOW about card tricks, really, until they're about 7 years old. And just like adults, there will be a percentage who jst don't "get it"...apart from very visual magic with cards. This is where the OTHER card plots come in, such as Ambitious Card (still "find the card", but with a twist, as the card repeatedly "finds itself" in various places), Torn/burnt and Restored Card, zig-zag card, acrobatic card or haunted deck, various mentalism effects, etc. So, if you want to include a card trick in your show, I suggest making it a very visual one, no matter what your audience. And the more you can get away from the "pick a card, let me find it" plot, the better - perhaps! Potty |
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
I perform the McCombical Deck in one show and Hen Fetsch's Card In Balloon in another one, along with Pressure using a deck instead of a cell phone. The presentation alone can make it appealing to kids.
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
As far as adults go, most card tricks are done without a presentational hook (actually, that's true for kids too). Sometimes that's okay, but it can lead right into "so what." But a hook makes all the difference in the world, for kids or adults, because then people are interested in the presentation and it's conclusion and the cards are only something you are using to illustrate it.
For adults and older kids you could do: cold reading (a favorite of mine), gambling, esp, philosophy, history and stories. Each of those has dozens of potential presentations and none of the requires a pick a card technique. Also, even if you do pick a card, that doesn't have to be the plot, it can be used as a way to illustrate the presentation (which is the real plot) For younger kids you can use cards with all the classic ideas: magician in trouble, look don't see, kid does magic, et cetera, et cetera. Posted: Nov 9, 2010 3:13pm Basically, ...I agree with Potty.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
I am with Tony. I hate card tricks. I run from guys with a deck of bicycles. Very few can make card magic entertaining - despite what many of you think.
I also have two children. My seven year old is completely unfamiliar with cards. My twelve year old has been familiar with cards for a few years now, but I have never seen him or his friends playing cards. They are a relic of the past. Kids play with DSs now. Having said that, there are two tricks I do use - six card repeat, followed by cards across. In my defense these are not card tricks so much as counting tricks, and even a five year old can count. I often use trading cards or business cards instead of playing cards, and it makes no difference.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Kids generally don't care a bit about tricks that depend on the face value or suit of cards - they can be very engaged by tricks that use cards (or decks of cards) as props: manipulation, jumping-out-of-the-deck cards, etc.
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
Only for kids 8 & up, and even then...I wouldnt. The only card effect that would work great on kids, at any age from 4 up would be the prince monte, because it's a fun 'look-follow' game, and the magic at the end is clear and cool.
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
I'm glad we have a couple of card-trick haters here. This is quite normal, there seem to be some folks who will often thoroughly enjoy all kinds of magic, but HATE card tricks. It's a curious phenomenon, I personally adore them.From when I was 5 years old, until I was about 16, I pretty much had a deck of cards with me at all times.
I think card magic is highly entertaining for certain folks. There are some people who run a mile when they see a deck of cards, but there are many more who immediately want to see what's going on. As has been said, making cards jump from the deck, or animating them in some other way, fancy shuffles, springs and cuts, are all engaging to kids. Many of my card presentations defy logic, and it's great when you have learned lots of variants to present "The Trick That Cannot Be Explained". Even the smartest magicians in the World can't "see how it's done", because the routining has led to an outcome that has no logical explanation. Only by seeing the effect presented multiple times, will the secrets be discovered. I don't know of many other genres of magic that can do this, apart from Mentalism. And, some card mentalism effects are devastating. There are so many ways to "read the mind" of a spectator - and reveal a card only THOUGHT of. So, yes, I'm a big card trick fan. When I perform close-up magic you'll always see me getting the cards out somewhere - but again, as with a stage show, I prefer to offer a selection of effects, using different stuff like coins, strings, rings, bills, etc. Too many card tricks becomes dull for many spectators - so I say choose a few great card effects, and stick with them. Potty |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-09 11:52, Frank Starsini wrote: I think that's a great point. You can ask "why do that?" about any trick or routine or bit of business and come up with something "better;" but it probably isn't better anyways, unless you like it yourself and have time to work on it live with it and make it yours. I think you have to go with what you like to do and what your audience responds to. Some might not believe that audiences are really entertained by card tricks, but as long as the audience believes that they have been entertained by them it's okay! If you can read the ambitious card routine in "Seriously Silly" and still not believe that card tricks can work for kids (not have to, but can ...if your into that kind of thing), then we'll just have to agree to disagree. For older kids (8yrs. +) you don't even have to be silly. I like to do a trick of Joshua Jay's that I call "time travel triumph" (I can't remember if that's what he called it our not), that is an in the hands triumph based on the concept of traveling back in time. This is very fun because I ask people what magical power they would pick if they could have one (this by itself is fun), then I explain why I would pick time travel and then do the routine. So you have an incredibly strong card trick (triumph) with a very interesting concept. ...of course, I wouldn't do that for little kids.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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LMLipman Elite user Falls Church, Va. 443 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-09 08:00, Al Angello wrote: I'm like Al. I do one or two tricks that involve cards but I wouldn't call them strictly "card tricks." One I do in every show. After magically producing "Rocky" from a fiery dove pan, Rocky finds a card usually selected by the birthday child. The by-play of Rocky sniffing the cards, sniffing the child's hand and refusing the pick up the card on my instructions makes this a fun trick for the kids. In the end, the birthday child asks Rocky to pick up the card, which he does to the kids' applause. The second trick I only do in older shows. It's basically a card stab in a paper bag. Again, it's not the card trick but the knife and stabbing the bag that gets the kids' attention and interest. |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
LMLipman,
That sounds like a great trick, but if you have someone pick a card and you end up finding it I'm pretty sure that counts as a card trick! The other stuff is just exactly what it takes to make card tricks fun for kids (IMO).
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Don't forget to use all kinds of cards to make a "card trick" appear less so. I use many different types, including: animal picture cards, happy families cards (probably the BEST cards for "Ambitious Card" for the younger kids), many other picture cards (including the super "Slamwich!" cards, with pictures of various snadwich fillings), letter cards (force a "Y", for the age-old gag; "what letter did you choose?" "Y" "Why? Because I want to know.."etc), don't forget you may be able to use Birthday or Christmas cards for certain effects, then there's tarot cards, blank cards, cards which have different colours for faces, "Spelling Bee" cards, etc.
And of course, lots of great kids' effects are card tricks. There are SO many to choose from....and adding some interesting props and a clever plot definitely enhances. Some, like "Missing Spade" are brilliant ( 4 spades is chosen, magi reveals the 3 ....and searches for the "missing spade"....eventually removing a full-sized shovel from an impossibly small space) ...similar to my favourite card plot, which is Wolf's "The Flea". (3 Clubs is chosen, and Flea reveals the 2; so, he of neccessity is fired from a cannon onto the card, where he splats into the shape of a third club!) I honestly think the "plot" of "The Flea" is the funniest in all of card magic. Here, Chance Wolf has created a "living cartoon", and an "invisible puppet" routine, which is simply wonderful to present. Admittedly, this is one of the World's most EXPENSIVE card tricks too! Potty |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Well, if we count non playing card, card tricks then I actually do one in my show (two if you count cards from the mouth).
I usually end my kids shows with a jumbo version "The Musnt's," by Jeff McBride (and Shel Silverstein). It has a completely different feel from the rest of my show, but I really like it, a lot of the kids like it and I think that the parents really like it because it calms the kids down a little and has a powerful message.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
For very young kids, I sometimes do card tricks with alphabet cards. Examples: After shuffling the deck of ABC cards, I do Audley Walsh's Long Distance Side Spinner to make cards fly out of the deck that spell out the birthday child's name. I do a DL to show the letter "I" and have one of the kids tap it with a finger to change it to another letter--because "the hand is quicker than the I." And I do Joanne the Duck with all the gags, again with alphabet cards if I think there are kids too young to know one card from the other.
There are other very visual card effects where it doesn't matter if the kids know the cards--like Mental Photography. You could do the "Tree of Hearts" tree card monte gag because although kids might not know clubs, diamonds and spades, they surely know a heart when they see one, and they all probably know their numbers up to 10, so recognizing the numeral "3" should be no problem. Likewise, a Svengali deck routine where the three of hearts is the force card should be viable. I also do a routine of one-hand cuts and shuffles. They all probably know what shuffling cards is from games like "Go Fish," another easy card game where it doesn't matter what the suits are. ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Sock Puppet Monkey Loyal user 235 Posts |
As a magician I thought that we were obligated to do at least one card trick per show. Alphabet cards would count too I suppose.
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