|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] | ||||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-24 23:56, balducci wrote: I suspect that in almost all cases, that's not true. If the doctor you went to had instead become a bartender, you would have simply gone to another doctor. Maybe there are certain types of complex surgeries that can only be performed by a handful of people, but by and large, I stand by my point. If the guy who yanked my gall bladder hadn't gone to medical school, he'd probably have a less rewarding job. As for me, any one of a number of surgeons could have done it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
[quote]On 2010-11-24 23:40, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
landmark wrote: Lobowolf replied: Quote:
. . . Nobody benefits more from a good education than the person being educated. If someone is unwilling to pay a percentage of the actual costs of his or her own education, as Judge Smails said, "The world needs ditch-diggers, too." Among many distinguished alumni of CUNY there have been 12 Nobel Laureates. They paid nothing for their tuition. Hardly ditch diggers. Except maybe Kissinger.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I was referring to those who choose not to go to college if they have to pay for a portion of it, under today's scheme.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
"If the guy who yanked my gall bladder hadn't gone to medical school, he'd probably have a less rewarding job. As for me, any one of a number of surgeons could have done it."
I absolutely agree with your first point. He absolutely benefited from his education. But I don't see how the interchangeability changes things. There is still some educated medical practitioner involved in the equation benefiting others, more than himself. It doesn't have to be a surgeon, it might be a relatively lowly family doctor or nurse. BTW I am not against people paying something towards their education. But I think a well educated populace pays off in many ways. And that society often gains more from an educated individual than the individual himself.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 00:36, balducci wrote: Did I, as his patient, benefit from his education? I would say no; if he had chosen not to obtain his education, I would have been operated on by an approximately equally skilled doctor (as would his other patients). If he had not gone to medical school, I would be in the exact same place I'm in now; he would not. So he benefited more than I did from his education.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Actually, good news. Kissinger is a Harvard guy. Sorry. He started at City College and then was drafted.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
You meant Colin Powell. Seen one Secretary of State, you've seen 'em all.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
What are the fees at The School of the Assassins or can a student graduate there for free? I am thinking of applying for a place to make myself useful to the revolution that has started.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I'm not sure how much it is, but they only take precious metals; no paper money.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 00:40, LobowolfXXX wrote: I guess we have to agree to disagree, because your argument does not make sense to me. You still benefited from SOMEONE's education. The doctor who WAS educated, and let's imagine saved your life because of that, whoever this doctor was, benefited you more from his education than he did himself. You gained your life, which beats his promotion up from being a bartender. BTW, I was originally thinking more of a medical researcher who creates a new vaccine or procedure. Someone who benefits millions of people, not just his own patients.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
And, of course, there are other intangibles. Isn't it generally acknowledged that there is less violent crime among the highly educated classes? I've heard that said, but perhaps it is not true? If it is true, it seems to me that this would be an enormous benefit to society, one that would be difficult to place a cost or value on.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 01:05, balducci wrote: I definitely agree with you with respect to certain researchers; some of their discoveries are too singular to be able to rely on replication, at least in the same approximate time frame. With respect to doctors and other practitioners, though, in the process of disagreeing with me, you're changing my point. The question isn't whether I benefited from "someone's" education; the initial assertion was about an individual. The individual who decides whether or not he or she will pursue an education. If THAT SPECIFIC PERSON chooses to, for the most part, nobody will benefit more from that decision that him or her.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 01:10, balducci wrote: Their probably is, though I'm not sure if the connection is causal (I'd certainly imagine it's not PURELY causal. I suspect that college is more attractive to a considerably higher percentage of non-criminals than criminals in the first place).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 01:12, LobowolfXXX wrote: The general statement I was examining and arguing against was "Nobody benefits more from a good education than the person being educated." [1] If you agree with me with respect to the impact of certain researchers, then I guess that makes my case. So you see my point of view, and I don't really need to say anything more. But since you wrote [2] ... [2] I was conditioning on an educated person who saves lives, say, perhaps your own. If I can disprove the general statement in a conditional case, that is enough to show that it does not generally hold. -- Up above, you sort of modified your statement by adding a 'for the most part'. I absolutely agree with: "For the most part, nobody benefits more from a good education than the person being educated." The problem is, it is hard for society to identify who the exceptions to this are. Which educated people benefit society more than they do themselves. Often they only show up and prove themselves after they obtain the higher education. So making higher education readily available is a way of improving society's odds of producing such exceptions. We were talking about whether higher education should be free, right? I don't think it should be. Mainly because too many people would be inclined to take advantage of it, not really learn anything useful, and be no better off. But I think it should be free (or at least much more affordable) to those who are likely to make something of the opportunity. And I suppose that is what full academic based scholarships are for. It's just that we could probably do with more of these.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 01:44, balducci wrote: I agree...I didn't realize that I hadn't qualified the original statement. Yes, as a blanket categorical statement, it's overstated.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
My apologies then, Tommy.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 01:15, LobowolfXXX wrote: Just noticed this. "There," obviously.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
|||||||||
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 01:10, balducci wrote: Not the case with Kissinger or Powell unfortunately.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 00:44, LobowolfXXX wrote: Pretty much true, though Kissinger is in a class by himself. Powell, of course was not a Nobel Laureate.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Students attack Prince Charles' car after fee hike
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101209/ap_o......n_tangle http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-......ent.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » London Students Seize the High Ground (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |