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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Dealing with A phony spiritualist (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tom Jorgenson
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No I don't. I answered that above.

It's not at all projection, it's more extrapolation. The concept is reliable enough to use, but vague enough not to be a rule. You seem to be objecting with your philosophies before doing, applying or trying.

Go, try. Then come back...another thread please, this is sidetracking and the whole thing is not worth much conversation. Go, do. Or not. I don't know any more than what I've stated, and cannot add more without your trying the thing yourself. After that, we can discuss what I remember.

If you are not an experienced reader, however, conversation is useless, as it will only be conjecture.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
Jim-Callahan
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Tom asked, "How should a charlatan paranormalist who bilks gullible people be treated? Should he/she be exposed? How? By whom"?

I would like to reply to this but am at a bit of a loss to do so completely.

For instance I do think people harming others should be reported to the Police, FBI, etc.
for breaking whatever law they have
broken.

After all is it not their job to take care of these things?

I have exposed James Randi, to his people and it made no difference.
A cult like mentality is not easily defeated with simple truth.
(You can see proof of this on the JREF forum and on the
comments left to the videos posted to prove that point).

What I found extremely interesting in the instance of
the videos about Randi breaking federal law was
that no one understood or would address the real problem
with what he was doing.

I only bring this up to illustrate the situation of trying to educate
those who are immune to reason or rational thought.

But as you can see a public outing does nothing to help those who truly need
to believe they are correct in the course they have chosen.

So I guess my short answer now is that it is not up to a magician, mentalist or entertainer
to expose fraud. In the U.S.A. we have people who deal with such things and are paid to do
so once we report the situation to them.

Also I have yet to meet a charlatan Paranormalist.

Criss Angel, thought he had and has been recognized and branded for his ignorance.
(Do thank him for that).

Anyway if you would like to add to this or desire a bit of clarification please let me know.

Best Wishes,

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
entity
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Jim: Check your profile -- "Intellect" is meant to be spelled with two "l"s.

- entity
shamsiel
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Quote:
On 2010-11-22 14:11, Jim-Callahan wrote:

Let me state as my first reply that I have yet to meet
a fake spiritualist or medium.



This is a very important point to consider.
Without going into much detail I was born to a family where you quoted occult works as if they where scripture (KJ bible); and they still do. I can tell you from memory what the Knights of the seven Arab heavens are, or the 7 churches of Asia minor, elemental rulings, triplicities of the zodiac, the Sephira, Zoroastrian Zodiac, The evolutions of Briah, The 32 paths of the Sepher Yetzirah, Goetic Spirits, etc etc etc. I think a modern author on the subject said "Intelligences and spirits are all in your mind, you just have no idea how big your mind truly is!". I wcho Jim Callahan's words nad agree that there is no such thing as a false Medium. There have been, are, and will be incidental and accidental mystics for all time.

When it comes to fraud... I have an aunt that makes a living helping people with her Clairvoyant abilities, I helped her for a few years and worked on her shop. Her readings are very general and fair, And her clientele is colorful. When a client comes with issues that are beyond her abilities she always recommends a professional. If the person is sick she recommends a doctor, if they have a family member in trouble with the law she recommends they find a lawyer, etc etc. I don't think she is a fraudulent Psychic Entertainer. How else would a Paranormal Entertainer make money?

It would be traumatic if a magician, or a mentalist, raided her shop and called her a fraud. She worked really hard on creating the special shop, with dim lights, aromatic candles, incense, and a few other decorations to create an aura of mystery. It is her career. She would be crushed.

Shamsiel
Russell Davidson
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Quote:
On 2010-11-26 09:28, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Uncle,

There is a good deal of proof and I provide it durring my presentations.
(But that is not the topic of this thread).

However I would offer that tricking people and then using that as proof looks just a smidge unethical and fail to see how it relates to this topic.

Some of your statements do read a bit ignorant.

Best Wishes,

Jim



Typical response. I'm ignorant because I don't agree that you can talk to the dead? And I didn't set out to use a trick as proof of my point, I just thought I'd include it because the spiritualist claimed I must be psychic after I did it. To call me unethical is nothing short of hyprocrisy IMO considering what you do.

The only real proof will become apparent upon death. If you're there Jim saying 'I told you so' then I'll concede to your theory.

But your responses so far have been as expected. Put down those that don't agree & call them 'ignorant' & childish remarks like 'don't know where they've been'.
Jim-Callahan
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Russell,

It appears I misinterpreted your post and intent.

Sorry for that.

Best Wishes,

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Russell Davidson
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Apology accepted. See you on the other side! Smile
Mind Guerrilla
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Mr. Callahan,

Thank you for replying.

It looks like more deficiencies of my original post are shining through...

Instead of asking, "Have you ever met a phony spiritualist?" it may have been better to ask, "Have you ever *encountered* a phony spiritualist?" This could take the form of something as simple as a PM from an unethical character who mistakenly thinks of you as a kindred spirit, e.g., "Yo, Jim! Youse and me we're in similar rackets! I come up wit dis great scam. I convince little old ladies that their dead poodles want them to contribute to our fake charity: 'Save The Dead Poodles' and I was wonderin' if youse could offer me any pointers (no pun intended heh heh heh)?"

It seems at least one other poster is under the impression that my original message implies members of the Café have more of a moral obligation to discourage charlatans than laymen. I don't think this is necessarily so. You don't have to be an auto mechanic to tip off your neighbor that the guy who runs the local garage is a crook. Of course, another mechanic who can describe specific shady practices in detail might make a more convincing argument. This also presumes that all auto mechanics are not crooks but that's a topic best left for The Grease Monkey Café.

I presume that a person who presents him/herself as the real McCoy has an added self-interest in discouraging fakes. In the wake of the Milli Vanilli lip-synching scandal of the 90s, I'm sure some singers became concerned that fans might begin to wrongly suspect them of similar tactics. After Bernie Madoff was busted, there were probably a lot of folks wondering whether they could trust their own stock broker (or who shied away from investing in the first place). In my work for the Federal Government I was involved in busting phony immigration attorneys who promised people benefits they weren't entitled to, often leaving them broke and facing deportation. Once bitten, twice shy: could any of these victims ever completely trust even a genuine attorney ever again? So I reckon the existence of fake mediums/psychics/paranormalists/spiritualists would be of concern because each exposure could have an adverse effect on the livelihoods of all the genuine articles. Do I reckon right or wrong? Of course, this leads to the quandary, "How do we get rid of the fakes without exposing them to the public?"

Striving to communicate more impeccably, I remain,
Mind Guerrilla
RenzIII
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More importantly has any one encountered a real one???

I cant stop the rain from falling , falling!!!!
Jim-Callahan
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Quote:
On 2010-11-29 13:24, RenzIII wrote:
More importantly has any one encountered a real one???

I cant stop the rain from falling , falling!!!!


Real what?
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Mind Guerrilla
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I think some of the folks joining this thread mid-stream are unaware that it proceeds from a premise that Jim Callahan is everything he claims to be.

If you don't accept this premise regarding Mr. Callahan (or any other medium/paranormalist), that is your right but I didn't intend this thread to be one which argues whether or not there are "real ones." There are other places on the Café where this can be and has been debated. Those threads usually become, as Mr. Callahan says, "volcanic" and (in my view) unproductive back-and-forth sniping.

Don't get me wrong, I like to think I can snipe back and forth as unproductively as the next guy but there's a time and place for everything.
MichaelCGM
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Quote:
On 2010-11-28 20:34, Jim-Callahan wrote: I have exposed James Randi, to his people and it made no difference. A cult like mentality is not easily defeated with simple truth. What I found extremely interesting in the instance of the videos about Randi breaking federal law was that no one understood or would address the real problem with what he was doing.


If you are referring to your claim, elsewhere, that Mr. Randi committed a felony by printing counterfeit money, you are incorrect. I witnessed Randi's demonstration, that pens used to detect counterfeit money do not prevent counterfeiting. Randi's demonstration uses a one-sided bill. The back side is left blank, intentionally, so that Randi can prove that the bill is not real. Ergo, your claim that Randi committed a felony is just plain wrong. An apology to Randi would be in order.

As a side note. I like your new avatar much better than the old one. Nice job.
Magically Yours,

Magical Michael

MagicalMichael.com Smile Laus Deo!
Tony Iacoviello
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You are mistaken, even copying one side of a US bill is illegal. There are strict guidelines for the use of images of US currency, they were NOT followed for that demonstration as evidenced by the video (and your own comment). This whole line of discussion was explored previously.

I like the avatar too.

Tony
Randwill
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I didn't see Randi's lecture so I'm not sure how a segment about the inefficiency of counterfeit-detecting pens fits into his usual theme of being skeptical and critical thinking. I do feel like Jim Callahan attacking him and accusing him of a felonious act for using a fake bill in a demonstration revealed what a weak case Jim has against Randi on the real substance of Randi's life's work. Grasping at straws, as it were. Since the only real result of Jim's silly 'exposure' videos was an interesting discussion about counterfeit laws here at the Café, I guess it served some good purpose.
Jim-Callahan
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We now have the proof of efficacy regarding the video clip examples out of the way.

Thanks to Randwill and MichaelCGM.

Also thanks for the positive feedback on the Avatar guys.

Best Wishes,

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
entity
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Quote:
On 2010-11-29 14:26, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
I think some of the folks joining this thread mid-stream are unaware that it proceeds from a premise that Jim Callahan is everything he claims to be.


I thought that Jim claimed to be an entertainer?

- entity
Jim-Callahan
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Quote:
On 2010-11-19 20:22, magic4545 wrote:
I think that the term that you're looking for, as used by those on the inside of the "psychic" business, is "closed eye psychic." That's what we used to call them in Vegas, decades ago, I don't know if the terminology or definition has changed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about that...

Jimmy Fingers


Sorry for not posting to this when the thread started.
Thought another might.

Best Wishes,

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
edh
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So, will Jim answer the op's post about "Dealing with a phony spiritulist"?
Magic is a vanishing art.
Russell Davidson
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Someone has photocopied one side of a bank note? Oooh, how terrible. Burn them immediately!

What a pathetic excuse to put someone down.
Andy Moss
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Real or phony medium? One does have to be at least some way along the spiritual path ourself to be able to discern. Poacher turned gamekeeper if you like. It is also clear that from the best guide books/training on the subject that the path to 'unfolding' one's 'psychic abilities'is the same as the eclectic 'spiritual path'. Just different cultural language.Psychic ability is merely intuition unfolded as energetic blocks untie under the presence of awareness.It is natural.Nothing special.Nothing that breaches the natural laws.

One could reasonably expect a 'genuine medium'-

-To have a disciplined, focused and daily meditation practice ('Sitting in the presence of God') of at least a couple of hours.Mediumship is just a habit developed like any other.

-To be naturally 'other regarding' and 'kind' and to be able to 'contain' energy fluctuations without falling into unconscious trances.That is to say with any self absorption 'trance' there would always be 'mindfulness'.

-To have developed in previous lives ('no origination, no stopping' the Heart Sutra hints to us) the habit of being able to readily enter a state of self absorption and/or to have made strenuous effects in the current life in one's spiritual practice.

-To be wise enough (through personal insight not through a book or others) as to be extremely careful as to when it is appropriate to 'help' or 'assist' others through your abilities. The true medium would feel no craving for affirmation from others.The understanding that it is 'better to teach someone how to fish than to feed them with a fish' in the long run.

-No playing of games.No showmanship.

It is my belief that few so called mediums meet this criteria unfortunately. It would however be healthy to remain carefully open minded to the potential that it is possible for a spiritual practitioner (of any faith) to be highly intuitive to the extent that one can 'experience' the collective consciousness/Being/transcendence to some degree. One day you will know for sure!
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