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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts |
Once again, I respectfully ask that people hold off on posting until Mr. Callahan speaks his piece.
It would be unfortunate if this thread were to be locked/deleted because people are bickering and/or re-framing the discussion into one about religion. |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-22 12:21, Mind Guerrilla wrote: Once again, I respectfully ask that people hold off on posting until Mr. Callahan speaks his piece. My sincere apologies, MG. |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Ok a bit of a preface to give my replies a bit of personal context.
Some of this was posted on this forum last month. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewf......=288&325 Life experience, research and a consideration of what might be considered the true nature of a thing or event, has resulted in my views of these topics and how I conduct myself as an artist and a person. It is important to note in the answering of these questions that my thoughts are not based upon a one off event. But a lifetime of observation and consideration. Every action creates a reaction and that connects to all sorts of other realities big and small. (I think we can all agree on that). And what I have found many times is that the produced reactions are more worthy of examination and in some cases exploitation. In addition in my opinion it is intellectual folly to not stand back and look at the big picture. One must construct an informed opinion of it based upon looking at it from the many different sides. However the failure and unwillingness to do so has become a very powerful tool that the educated stand back guys use to control and influence those who do or will not do so. You can see it is an effective tool the evidence being those posting to this thread in a nonproductive manner. However they must protect the choice they made because they fell for the compliance technique of public personal proof. I really am surprised still at how smart people fall for such easy psychological cons. And they are the ones trying to provide leadership to those who are being conned. (Truly it is great entrainment for those standing and watching). I find that worthy of a good talking about and we shall do just that but a bit later on after the main questions offered are covered. Let me state as my first reply that I have yet to meet a fake spiritualist or medium. Think this will be a good way to start this exchange of ideas in a positive way. Also since Tom, is asking the questions I will let him respond and then reply to his questions. I see no other way this can remain orderly and on topic. We all know how things can and mostly do go on this part of the Café. Also would think it might be good to hit one topic/question at a time. Tom can decide when to move onto the next. Just to keep things easy to follow and on track. Best Wishes, Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-22 14:11, Jim-Callahan wrote: I'm not sure whether I'll have any response other than, "Thank you for sharing your experiences/opinions." I'm sure that won't stop others from chiming in to say that neither you nor I are entitled to our opinions, though. Feel free to move on at your own pace. Looking forward to it. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
I think I took my first look at Spiritualism circa 1978 (albeit members of my family had been involved long before I was born).
I got involved because I felt someone was trying to SELL it to my mother and I wanted to protect her from 'them'. I was wrong. They were and are among the nicest people walking the planet. Like Jim I have never met a fake Spiritualist. More than that I can report that there is no such thing as a fake Spiritualist. It doesn't take you anywhere. However, I have met a couple fake mediums and what, sometimes seems, like several small nations of fake psychics. It's a shame but Barnum's statement of one born every minute and two to take 'em is probably spot on. On reflection, he's probably got the numbers wrong.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
>>>It's a shame but Barnum's statement of one born every minute and two to take 'em is probably spot on. On reflection, he's probably got the numbers wrong.<<<
Yeh but what he didn't say was two die every minute....wouldn't you like to keep in touch with them? Has anyone had a fake spirit? |
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
I have had the NDE (near death experience) once. It was complete with a "tunnel" which I went through at what seemed to be the speed of light, what was left of my body was put through a temporal cheese grater until it was gone (the best description I can do). It was complete with some dead relatives.
Having experienced this myself I can say, as far as my experience goes, that there is no way to tell if this was a mind trick, pre-death, or actually the doorway to.... I also didn't talk to anyone and having returned, still have no idea if this is even possible. I have beliefs about life (and post-life). This experience, though mind-blowing, did not affect my beliefs one way or the other. To me, there was just no way to know if it is "true", though I can certainly see that others who have had similar experiences find it to be proof. I also have noticed that those who cry for scientific proof don't really understand what they are talking about for the most part...there are a few skeptics who do actually understand science that post in these threads. That stuff about "extraordinary proof" is parroted nonsense. There are things you test and you look at results, evaluate, and go from there. No one claim requires more proof than another. There are also different types of scientific proof. The evaluation would use different criteria and different procedures depending on if it was a hard science proof, a mathematical proof, or a psychological proof. In many things all we can really say is we don't know. I have spent decades around both magician's and spiritualists. As far as dishonesty and deception go there is no contest. The magician's are far more dishonest (in my experience) than spiritualists. I have known many very crooked magician's...still do. There is even a section on this board for those who discuss cheating at gambling...do you really believe people just use that information for tricks? I guarantee you that gambling cheats take way more money than crooks who use mentalism techniques. Where are your protests there? There is one other thought that passes through my mind...something I learned very early on as a reader. If you want to describe someone's enemy to them, describe them back to themselves. What we dislike most in others is usually a flaw in ourselves. All this skeptic righteous indignation about honesty has implications for the posters themselves. So how do you deal with a phony spiritualist? Same way you deal with any crook...spiritualist, magician, or other kind. |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
"There is one other thought that passes through my mind...something I learned very early on as a reader. If you want to describe someone's enemy to them, describe them back to themselves.
"What we dislike most in others is usually a flaw in ourselves. All this skeptic righteous indignation about honesty has implications for the posters themselves." Very very true. Noticed the same thing as a reader...and also the opposite generally holds true. If they describe the qualities they admire most in someone, those are the qualities that they attain to. I once wrote a small pamphlet on this. The process can also work in reverse. If you notice outstanding qualities, good or bad in someone, you can generally go on to describe all the personal qualities of the 2 people you ask them to name: their worst enemy and their best friend. Just transfer the proper traits to whichever they name.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Can I get anyone a shadow-self?
I've asked to be banned
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bdekolta Inner circle Texas 1636 Posts |
Bobser & mota ~ Thank you for sharing some of your personal experience - I appreciate your taking the time to share.
Dan |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-23 17:37, Tom Jorgenson wrote: How do you know you are reflecting back to them their qualities and not yours! |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Because you reflect back to them their qualities not yours.
anyway, we're off-topic again. sorry.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
'Never met a fake spiritualist'
Interesting. Probably true. Spiritualists do actually believe what they do is genuine. They are simply not capable of considering any other explaination. Prepared to blindly claim they can talk to the dead & deliver messages to those they've left behind. They forget all the 'misses' & only remember the 'hits'. And they are surrounded with a plethora of excuses should the message not mean anything to anyone. Of course, any good scientist will admit we don't know everything but spiritualism IMO is just another way humans deal with the fact that we know we are going to die. We are the only species that are aware of this fact in advance. Believing that there is some kind of life after death in the form of spritualism, religion, or whatever your preference is a way of comforting yourself that the end might not be.....well, the end. I have just performed Haiku for a work colleague that is a spiritualist. She immediately said I must have picked up on her psychic energy & I must be psychic myself. Wouldn't even consider anything else. Blind devotion in a nutshell. It's strange how none of these beliefs can be backed up with any proof. Unfortunately, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Sadly, there simply isn't any. |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Uncle,
There is a good deal of proof and I provide it durring my presentations. (But that is not the topic of this thread). However I would offer that tricking people and then using that as proof looks just a smidge unethical and fail to see how it relates to this topic. Some of your statements do read a bit ignorant. I would suggest going back and reading what others have written. For the record all Mediums are not Spiritualists and all Spiritualists are not Mediums. Best Wishes, Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-23 20:07, Tom Jorgenson wrote: Well yes but how do you know the qualities you see aren't yours? Sure it must work the same way with everyone. |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Sorry, had a hard time grokking your question. You're wondering how I can observe someone's bad character trait and NOT have it be a trait of my own I'm seeing in them.
I think it has to do with the emotional investment. If I am at a party and have noticed the loud snarky fasionista plowing thru the party, I can see that trait objectively. I can apply the above stuff (as a generality, not a rule). It doesn't mean that I have a bad trait of snarky fashionista-ism in myself. However, I have an acquaintance that has spent most of his life as a self-centered egoist, and that trait I hate in him....and fight it in myself. In this case, the rule applies to me because of the emotional connection. During readings, I won't afflict everyone with my traits. If I can see theirs objectively I can apply the extrapolations and presume they'll work. Seems to work best in strongly defined personalities tho. It's not a cold-reading sort of thing, you need to sense when it will apply, and most of that goes back into trusting your own instincts to pop out ideas spontaneously, imho. Great effect on the client, tho.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 09:31, Russell Davidson wrote: I found this quite hilarious. That someone would believe that this sh-te gets 'performed'! Never mind the spiritualists fooling themselves Russell, you need a hug mate!!!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
You do it Bob, because who knows were he has been.
I just am not a huggng type. Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
"L.O.L. Well I AM the hugging type Jim. I truly really am."
For what it's the worth, some would consider the above 17 syllabled line a Haiku. How deep is that?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-26 18:38, Tom Jorgenson wrote: If you subscribe to the notion that its all projection and you descibe to a client their good or bad points and pass it on as being that of a loved one or enemy then you must also subscribe to the idea that what you see is good or bad in them is a projection of you. |
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