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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
What a bunch of Grade-A-Wankers.
But that is why most of you hide in the dark. You expose premise and method. If you bought it then post a proper opinion. J im H.o.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I've just got this...never read the method before...
no where in the pdf does he say "i invented this concept"; he's taking something from one world, and applied it to another... good on him...and well worth the money... and yes Ted, I agree completely...think I may well give this place a miss for a good long while...
I've asked to be banned
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Sorry I came into this late. Well said Ted, Jim and Iain.
Based on what I've read, my guess is you fart in a bottle, place a coin on the top and stand well back before watching the power of your very own gas move the coin in 14.6 seconds, or something very close to this. However, I don't know for sure, and for 5 bucks I get to find out. Seems like a fair deal to me. If it's great then it's great. If it's a duck then I get to laugh at myself for being taken so well and congratulate the fraudster who skinned me for 'only' 5 bucks. I simply love this kinda' stuff.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
The secret is out...you join together 19 straws, insert up a fundament (which can be borrowed and inspected), then drill via woodpecker into the shaft of the beer bottle...you then feed the owner of the fundament baked beans via your favourite method and wait 90 minutes...
I've asked to be banned
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-26 18:47, bobser wrote: If it were only $5 then I to would be on your side and truth be told it matters not to me, as I make enough money in our craft that I can write off all my magic purchases. Where it gets a bit shady is when we consider those who don't have much in the way of funds or those who are hobbyists. Now before I even address this point I'm "old school" where if one was truly interested in magic one had to pay their dues. It takes years of buying crap to learn how to read ad copy to either deduce the workings of an effect or know what is hype and what is not. When I used to give magic lessons I would ask the parents of the child wanting to learn if they wanted their child to be a magician or a lawyer as the costs would probably be about the same. Be that as it may, to just repackage an old concept or even a new concept marketing it to the uninformed or ignorant is as dishonest as claiming to be psychic when knowing that your instead a magician. My point still stands. Give the consumer of magic quality and value and not only will you make money but you will earn the respect of those of us who spend Thousands a year on this stuff. And before the crowd start to define "value" let me contextualize it as being "something one would use in performance". I do not subscribe to the notion that once a secret is learned the value of a trick is lost. The proof of this is in our own appreciation of good performances. While many of us know how the trick in say Richiardi routine was done, one would still have to admit that the man was an incredible showman and perfectionist. So again why concern ourselves with the petty aspects of capitalism, and concern ourselves more with showmanship. Just a thought. Cheers
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Possibly because some people have no idea about persona, how to connect/engage with people or how to deliver what they do well and cohesively... so they learn what they buy verbatim....
again, taking a concept, a scientific "thing", whatever it is...taking that notion and saying "hey, use this within your own mentalism presentational framework..." - that's a good thing... and for the price (in this case) excellent...i learnt something, and already I have a couple of ideas to try out tomorrow once I've drunk the necessary beers... and if you guys actually go and read the site, it does state quite clearly where the idea is from... so yes, considering this is less than $5, and is a great idea for psi parties, small gigs and bar work/situations...excellent! I perform in small bars on occassion, and this will be great for such settings...
I've asked to be banned
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-26 18:47, bobser wrote: Quote:
On 2010-11-26 19:09, IAIN wrote: Hmmm Baked Beans P.S. 'Man Who Loved Baked Beans' is just a light hearted joke. Enjoy the joke and then get back on topic please.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I don't drink, so I thought I might buy a $2.00 bottle of tap water with a fancy label on it for this effect. For character I'll wear a knock-off pair of $300 sunglasses and some pants with pre-made holes and some guy's name on my butt. When I perform this effect it's obvious value will be so high it won't matter if it works or not. I can't stand false packaging, though, so I'll tell everyone my kid taught it to me.
Speaking of value and false claims, I bought a music book the other day and all it had in it were funny marks on lines and didn't make any sound at all. What a rip!
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
So, the guy is selling a commonly known science "trick" and people are ****ed because someone else has noted, hey, he's selling a commonly known science "trick." What am I missing? Admittedly, what I have from this creator is highly derivative, but that's fairly typical. If it were another creator (or I suppose "creator"), would there be the ruch to defend him? I'm just sayin'...
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Aaron E Special user 756 Posts |
This exposure is rediculous. Eshla...you should be banned!
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the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-27 00:10, JohnWells wrote: and this has been said by different people, yet the defenders have not responded to this. curious. s |
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MentalistCreationLab Inner circle 1528 Posts |
Let me break this down for you all starting with a big issue that really is not an issue and should have never been one. .
Over 100 years ago and in every old book magician combined science with the art of performing to create a magical effect. These greats of Yore did this all the time. I can give you hundreds of examples if not thousands. In my opinion looking to science for a idea that can be applied to our magical art is not wrong. It is however a good idea. Since these effects happen most of the time by themselves. Also on the description of the effect it says Note: This is an effect based on an old traditional child's toy from the late 1800’s. This is the first time the concept of using it is applied to mentalism. Not once did I say that I created this effect. I did find out yesterday that an idea with a fr***n bottle did appear in a kids magic book in 1968 from another Café member in a PM. For the recorded I have never seen or heard of this book. Not uncommon since I only collect mentalism and metaphysical stuff. Continuing on, the work I presented does not use a fr***n bottle so it is different and it is defiantly not a performance of Magic. It is in the truest sense a performance of impromptu mentalism that when performed and not demonstrated is a truly amazing effect for the viewer as noted by some performer above in the disheartening thread. Next issue The whole effect happens in the hands of a spectator you touch nothing. This is a true statement if performing the effect that was outlined in the work this way. Everything can be borrowed. Also true. The cover of the book and the photo on the site shows a bottle and a coin. No mystery there either to say that this is not as described is a farce. I showed you the props that I used last time I performed the effect before an live audience right here in the lab. You can even be across the room! Also true. The effect is self working. By the magical definition also true..... The telekinetic Coin is also great for psi parties and group gatherings. Also true I think someone already brought up this so there will be no need for me to go it to it further. Can be used as a close up effect or for a larger audience this statement is true on both accounts I have personally done this effect for one and for a group of over 500 who was drinking a lot of beers at a rock show I opened for. It was a charity benefit for cancer foundation. It raised some very needed money for them and none of the performers were paid. So all of the above is acceptable and with in the magic code. So this brings us to revealing secrets in open forum. Now let see, I not even going to comment on this. There is no need for additional input on this form me. Now I own a large number of these types of works that can be applied to mentalism some of them are well over 400 years old that I am certain that none of you have ever seen these were toys that were crafted by loving parents for their children. Many of the items in my private collection are one of a kind and a few of them can be applied to mentalism. If the creator had a name I would post it and personally offer my thanks to him for presenting us with such a great item. Now I did not write this book for money nor do I write any of my work for money. I am simply cataloging my ideas, some of them are very good like my Pulse who Marvin Kaye sited “One of the greatest effects in mentalism EVER”. The bridge is another effect that broke away from the boundaries of standard mentalism and opened up a new world where a performer can extend his performance into the world of the spectator’s dreams. This was not previous done by anyone. Those of you who have used it know what kind of reparation it makes for you. I never force anyone to buy my stuff,and neither do any other creators, that choice has always been up to you. We creators are honored by anyone whom uses are stuff. It is perhaps one of the greatest feelings in mentalism when someone creates a miracle for someone else and add joy to their lives using are materiel. Form time to time I give works away for free. My published work is an attempt to give back to mentalism what it has been given to me. The last thing I will say is that when I perform my stage show it is nothing like anything you have ever seen and I bill out at very high price. So creating work for others is not by any means profitable. If it were for the money I would not do it. What I made in sales the last four years may have paid for a nice pair of shoes. Now all that is said I leave you with this Love me or Hate me I am Bill Montana and there ain’t any thing you can do about that. |
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MentalistCreationLab Inner circle 1528 Posts |
Let me break this down for you all starting with a big issue that really is not an issue and should have never been one. .
Over 100 years ago and in every old book magician combined science with the art of performing to create a magical effect. These greats of Yore did this all the time. I can give you hundreds of examples if not thousands. In my opinion looking to science for a idea that can be applied to our magical art is not wrong. It is however a good idea. Since these effects happen most of the time by themselves. Also on the description of the effect it says Note: This is an effect based on an old traditional child's toy from the late 1800’s. This is the first time the concept of using it is applied to mentalism. Not once did I say that I created this effect. I did find out yesterday that an idea with a fr***n bottle did appear in a kids magic book in 1968 from another Café member in a PM. For the recorded I have never seen or heard of this book. Not uncommon since I only collect mentalism and metaphysical stuff. Continuing on, the work I presented does not use a fr***n bottle so it is different and it is defiantly not a performance of Magic. It is in the truest sense a performance of impromptu mentalism that when performed and not demonstrated is a truly amazing effect for the viewer as noted by some performer above in the disheartening thread. Next issue The whole effect happens in the hands of a spectator you touch nothing. This is a true statement if performing the effect that was outlined in the work this way. Everything can be borrowed. Also true. The cover of the book and the photo on the site shows a bottle and a coin. No mystery there either to say that this is not as described is a farce. I showed you the props that I used last time I performed the effect before an live audience right here in the lab. You can even be across the room! Also true. The effect is self working. By the magical definition also true..... The telekinetic Coin is also great for psi parties and group gatherings. Also true I think someone already brought up this so there will be no need for me to go it to it further. Can be used as a close up effect or for a larger audience this statement is true on both accounts I have personally done this effect for one and for a group of over 500 who was drinking a lot of beers at a rock show I opened for. It was a charity benefit for cancer foundation. It raised some very needed money for them and none of the performers were paid. So all of the above is acceptable and with in the magic code. So this brings us to revealing secrets in open forum. Now let see, I not even going to comment on this. There is no need for additional input on this form me. Now I own a large number of these types of works that can be applied to mentalism some of them are well over 400 years old that I am certain that none of you have ever seen these were toys that were crafted by loving parents for their children. Many of the items in my private collection are one of a kind and a few of them can be applied to mentalism. If the creator had a name I would post it and personally offer my thanks to him for presenting us with such a great item. Now I did not write this book for money nor do I write any of my work for money. I am simply cataloging my ideas, some of them are very good like my Pulse who Marvin Kaye sited “One of the greatest effects in mentalism EVER”. The bridge is another effect that broke away from the boundaries of standard mentalism and opened up a new world where a performer can extend his performance into the world of the spectator’s dreams. This was not previous done by anyone. Those of you who have used it know what kind of reparation it makes for you. I never force anyone to buy my stuff,and neither do any other creators, that choice has always been up to you. We creators are honored by anyone whom uses are stuff. It is perhaps one of the greatest feelings in mentalism when someone creates a miracle for someone else and add joy to their lives using are materiel. Form time to time I give works away for free. My published work is an attempt to give back to mentalism what it has been given to me. The last thing I will say is that when I perform my stage show it is nothing like anything you have ever seen and I bill out at very high price. So creating work for others is not by any means profitable. If it were for the money I would not do it. What I made in sales the last four years may have paid for a nice pair of shoes. Now all that is said I leave you with this Love me or Hate me I am Bill Montana and there ain’t any thing you can do about that. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
This thread has started me musing on tricks based on scientific oddities marketed as magic, i.e. the magician knows something the audience does not about a scientific principle, the presentation of which looks "impossible."
silk material compresses into a small space objects made from sponge compress and two objects can appear as one a hidden magnet can secretly manipulate an object a balloon not under stress is self-healing a fine thread is invisible at a distance an object painted the same color as the background is invisible Inattention of Vision .......................................................... have you ever purchased an effect using any of these principles? Did you cry foul? Did you refuse to perform this "rip-off?"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
Food for thought!!
Very well said Funsway.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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bevbevvybev Inner circle UK 2672 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-26 18:11, Jim-Callahan wrote: Nice to see the word ******S being used on the other side of the pond x |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
So lets sum this up...
explanation of the true roots of the method explained on the site before you purchase it taken something over 200 years old and applied it to mentalism does not need anything to sit in the fridge before hand is the price of a cup of coffee impromptu, self-working yet... john wells (not for the first time) seems hellbent on calling foul (again), opinions are opinions John, not fact.. the points I've listed above though, are fact... generally, exposure of any kind is frowned upon - and I wonder why it isn't here.. eshla - I despair of you, and the damage you continue to do to both yourself, and to mentalism... though no doubt you'll release an ebook early next year on all the improvements youve made to Colin's dvds... real honest reviews are a good thing, being honest of your OPINION is always good and healthy too... but basically doing what some of you have done on this thread is truly dispicable and quite frankly, I hope karma comes round and bites you when you least expect it...
I've asked to be banned
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
"Haters are confused admirers who can't understand why everybody loves you." Paulo Coelho
:)
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Actually, I think you miss my point. If, as Bill attests, this is a new application of a well-known principle, then the cry of exposure is entirely justified if what is being exposed is that new application, which doesn't seem to be the case. The thing being exposed here seems to be the public domain root idea, rather than the presentation. Again, what am I missing?
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MentalistCreationLab Inner circle 1528 Posts |
The clown forum
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