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bobser
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First of all I don't wander around bugging people. Not even when I'm with the guys doing street stuff. Most of the time I have a que of people, all having fun.
But when I work (I did about 80 shows last year) I get paid, very well.
By the way, what's YOUR failure rate Danny? I'm curious to see if you'll admit the real number.

Posted: Dec 13, 2010 9:21pm
..... been almost three hours Danny. Look man it doesn't have to be the exact number, just a ball park figure. I've got this picture of you in my head with broken pencils and bits of paper with numbers all over the room!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Bobser first off I think you are in posession fo a copy of my work. Don't talk to me like I am some newbie.

Second of all I am sorry if I have other things to do than to answer a question that you seem to refuse to answer.

Third of all my success rate is is right about 70% or so. I keep anywhere between 60% to 100% of subjects.

I am asking you how often you fail with what it is you do one on one in public. Simple. If you want to be a smart guy then ok forget it. I was simply trying to put this in perspective.

Oh and right you just have a que of people waiting. How is it they just know you are doing hypnosis? You must accost the first person at some point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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First of all Danny you said:
"The arm thing. how many times does it fail?"
Then you asked what my success rate is and concluded with: "don't even try to tell me 100%"
You then tell me I walk around BUGGING people and assume that I need to ACCOST people to do my work.
Next you say EVERY time you watch someone doing street/impromptu stuff they always have an off night. That's 100% right? I've NEVER seen any street guy THAT bad.
You then suggest that there's danger of ME treating YOU like a newbie, which again, by implication, suggests that I'M not showing YOU enough respect.
Never mind. I'm going to wish you a Merry Xmas and let it all fade away.

But to answer your question, if you can walk up to a stranger and without enlisting trance ask them if they THINK they can lift their arm up, and after them saying yes to you they find that they CANNOT(this is the 'arm thing' as described), then your success rate is way higher than mine. In fact in my very best night I've NEVER EVER achieved that. And wait for it, I actually believe I'm good at this stuff!
But yes I am perfectly aware that others can have more success than me. Well done to you and them. I'm gonna' try harder next year.
But here's the thing... I'm TRYING to get the subject NOT to be able to raise their arm, sure, but it's NOT a dealbreaker. I then USE the fact they've lifted their arm to go somewhere else.
I'm not too sure if you've been understanding anything I've been talking about to tell the truth. Nor I you. I think we're gonna have to blame the medium of the chat room.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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I guess I am confused about a great many things.

First off how is it that anyone confuses what you seem to do with hypnosis? Really. I just don't get it.

I am confused because it just seems to me that you tell them a bunch of things, you "demonstrate" that he can lift his arm (which somehow you and your mates find as entertaining as a stage show.) and go from there? I gues the totally incomplete nature of what you claim you are doing is part of my problem. If you ask me to describe a part of my show bobser, that is pretty easy. You are being very vague. For someone who works so much with words this is strange.

It seems to me that you sort of simply talk them into the fact that what they just saw was "hypnosis" whether it was or not. "Yes you can still raise your arm just like before we started, you are doing very well"..."this is a sign of a very deep trance".

I mean this is the EXACT problem I have when I see the street guys work. They treat it too much like mentalism where ANYTHING is a "hit" and somehow they convince themselves this is entertainment. I mean believe that you believe you are good at this stuff. But it is questionable as to wheter you are the one in trance or if the subjects are. I am trying to figure out exactly what it is you do and you do not just describe it for me. It is very confusing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Well we're not going to get into a heavy argument over this Danny. I won't allow it.
Mainly because you're a former American cop who has probably shot many people and been involved in waterboard torture, whilst I'm just a former kids entertainer. Although let me say here and now that I've hurt many kids during my shows, quite intentionally. But that was years ago and they were asking for it. The good ones all went home with a balloon.

Look, I have simply no idea why you think I'm being vague, seriously. It's just that although we're all the same we are also all different. You mention entertainment in hypnosis where as I find hypnosis more fascinating than entertaining. No, you're wrong when you say that me and my mates find it as entertaining as a stage show, we don't desire it to be! For many of us we are not in it merely for the entertainment side. Rather we are TRULY interested in the mind and what it can do and where it can go and how and where and....etc etc etc.
So, and I know this isn't for YOU, but for me, and many like me, we'd far rather be in a parlour setting doing hypnotic experiments than watching a stage show. If you could accept that as a fact we're moving in the right direction.
And no, I'm not remotely interested in talking people into the belief that what they just saw was hypnosis. Anyone who has seen me work would tell you that I often say it's NOT hypnosis. I live around the corner, literally, from the great James Esdaile (indeed I'm a descendant of his), and he was not remotely interested in terms or constructs either.
However, having given it some thought, it would appear that I have been mistaken and you truly ARE 100% correct, in that impromptu/street hypnotists are in a completely different place from professional stage hypnotists who are solely in the field of entertainment.
Sure there are some like Reg or Jon Chase who can shift easily but it's not for guys like you. I can now fully respect that.
Can I just say however, that although you are of course correct in some of the dangers you have mentioned in the past about kids not properly being trained I know of many highly skilled therapists who love to sneak out the back door (metaphor)and do a bit of hypno at street parties. And they are simply brilliant hypnotists. My point being we simply cannot tar all with the same brush.
In closing, and there's no way you're going to agree with this, but I honestly DO believe that if you met some of these guys that I've met, had a few beers and hung out with them, you'd have a ball, and you would GET IT. But I am perfectly aware that in your case that'll probably never happen. I personally think that's a shame. Okay, not a big shame, but a teensie weensie one.

Regards,
Bob
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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I think you miss my intent. I am TRYING to understand exactly what it is you do. I really am interested, not trying to argue or wind you up or what not. I am looking to see what it is I am missing. You get defensive because you think I am trying to fight. I am not, I am trying to understand.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Fair enough Danny. Can't argue with that. But of course I wouldn't be talking for the street hypnosis guys en masse. Some of them admittedly ARE a wee bit wild and that's not MY thing, therefore it'd be wrong for me to try and answer.
Maybe we should just wait till we meet up, have a few beers, go out to a pub, talk to some people, have them say "Really, I've got this thing couldya' help me with it?" and as we zap 'em and fix 'em we watch the crowd build. We earn not a penny but leave the establishment quite drunk, having made a dozen or so long-life friends. Better than any fee for me. We can make money any night.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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I am afraid that my main problem is that it "seems" as if you are treating hypnosis as some sort of miracle cure for the ails of the world. This is how you are making it sound. Not that you DO think that but it seems as if you do.

But alas no I do not want to watch this sort of thing. I still have no idea what exactly it is you do, and am not certain why you don't want to be spacific. Oh well, I tried, I really did. You have to admit though, it may be why there is so little respect for it huh?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Quote:
On 2010-12-14 16:25, Dannydoyle wrote:
I am afraid that my main problem is that it "seems" as if you are treating hypnosis as some sort of miracle cure for the ails of the world. This is how you are making it sound. Not that you DO think that but it seems as if you do.

But alas no I do not want to watch this sort of thing. I still have no idea what exactly it is you do, and am not certain why you don't want to be spacific. Oh well, I tried, I really did. You have to admit though, it may be why there is so little respect for it huh?


No one else has told me in over 30 years that I treat hypnosis as some sort of miracle cure for the ails of the world, EVER.
You say you have no idea what I do and that you're not certain why I don't want to be specific. Everyone else understands what I do, specifically.
And that last line: "it may be why there is so little respect for it huh?". I guess you just couldn't keep that line in couldya'?
That's probably due to the massive respect everyone has for stage hypnotists I guess huh?
I'm gonna' kick the dust off my feet with this one Danny and move on, leaving you this as a gift:
'If you fight real hard for your argument, you get to keep it, and everything else that goes with it.'
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Are you being intentionally daft? Seriously bobser. I WANT TO UNDERSTAND here and you give me absolutely NO description of what it is you do. You claim you are different from the things I have seen, but don't say how.

Ummm I hate to tell you bobser but I have been at events with Neil Armstrong, Ray Meyer (coach of DePaul Blue Demons) who is famous in Chicago, Pete Rose, and many others. People could not wait to hear about me and how I learned and what I did and yada yada yada. They had tremendous respect for stage hypnotists sorry if that hurts. So don't tell me that nobody respects what we do. Maybe on your side of the pond it has been run into the ground by poor operators, but here it is still THE most popular form of variety entertainment on a college campus, plus a huge night club and comedy club attraction, and several are working in Las Vegas and other vacation destinations. All that with no respect you say? Not hardly.

You are so blind that YOU THINK I AM ARGUING! I am not! I am trying to get you to describe what it is you do for me. I am trying to figure out what it is that goes on when you do this. You are cryptic but just want me to know you are different from the kids running about zapping people. I would LOVE to know how that is different from what you do, but you don't tell me what you do. This is not an arguement, this is me saying I am trying to figure what you do and how you do it. I am curious, I am interested, I really would like to expand my horizons! But you don't allow for this because like a nit you think I am causing an arguement of some sort.

Can we get past you thinking I am arguing and get to the point where you try to educate me? I know NOTHING of what this sort of thing is and am trying to learn. If I ask questions it is not a fight it is a person genuinely seeking information.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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I don't know why Bob just doesn't put up some videos of him and his mates then we can see if it gets any respect. My guess there is a good reason why there aren't any. They are dabblers not professionals. They don't have insurance ignore safety guidelines put forward by the home office and really don't care about the consequences of their "shows".

Just because someone prefers something doesn't make it better or right it just means they prefer it. By and large the public would rather see a proper show.

Whenever I have told people I am a stage hypnotist and have performed in large venues I always get respect. Its this information that got me in to train Mercedes-Benz, and currently in talks with the PGA who are considering funding me to look after 10 of their young professional golfers for 12 months. Its the same information that's got me in with a sporting events company who are trying to get me working with some of the top names in golf.

When I tell anyone who I am and what I have done I get instant respect. I don't recall any occasion when I haven't. Apart from on here.

Recently during the Edinburgh Festival HMV invested £9000 in my show. They paid for everything.

Whenever I tell anyone what I do I ALWAYS GET RESPECT ALWAYS. Apart from impromptu and street hypnotists who seem to think that they know more than I do.

I tell you this for nothing if you think stage hypnotists get no respect then impromptu or street hypnotists have no chance of any respect. Kids running around the streets zapping people is really about all it is.

But wait till there is a real media report of an accident and you won't know what hit you.

Quote:
On 2010-12-13 18:17, bobser wrote:
I want it to work, I simply cannot deny that, but if it doesn't WORK then only I will know that it hasn't worked. And I then move on to something else. BUT I will take something from that and so will my audience. I will however end up with someone exhibiting phenomena, but not necessarily with trance involved.

If I've done my preamble properly and had the chance to premingle I'd expect it to work most of the time but it's totally not necessary.
Why do you ask?

This is the point I am trying to make. Sticking an arm to a table, putting someone into trance are only a very small number of techniques. It's like driving a car and being totally absorbed on the accelerator or clutch... It takes you NOWHERE.

That's why most never develop beyond the basics of hypnosis.
bobser
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I broke into MP's house last night. I went into his lounge. I forced open the catch where he keeps his record collection. I was shocked. There was only one record there. And it was cracked!
Now... I truly understand.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Yea but really bobser, you can't explain what you do, you won't show what you do, but you seem to want to demand respect for what you do. How are we to get to know this phenemenon you create without you either telling us, or showing us? I am very confused as I have stated I just want to know. I am curious to expand my horizons and you are simply not helping. I can't help but wonder why.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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I don't think we'll be going there again Danny. Sorry.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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AGAIN? You have not gone there the first time bobser! Come on man.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 12:09, bobser wrote:
I broke into MP's house last night. I went into his lounge. I forced open the catch where he keeps his record collection. I was shocked. There was only one record there. And it was cracked!
Now... I truly understand.


Its called consistency something a flake wouldn't understand.
bobser
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Yeah, you ARE consistent. I'll give you that.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Bobser just so we are clear. I am trying only to understand that is all. Heck even send me a PM, but I REALLY am trying to be educated here as to what I am missing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Ok Danny excuse my manners. I'll pm you over the weekend
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2010-12-17 12:53, bobser wrote:
Yeah, you ARE consistent. I'll give you that.


That works on both sides of the fence.

I am consistent about the following things...

Safety for both volunteers and the venues. I meet all the safety guidelines and no venue is ever put in a position of possibly losing their license or being sued for a huge amount of money if something out of my control goes wrong.
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